General my £200 '95 Mk1 75sx 'Paddy Punto'

[bluejohn125]

Well I wouldn't change your wheels unless you wanted some in an earlier style to suit the Mk1... I certainly wouldn't go up to 15" and I'd leave the Panda 100HP wheels for someone with a genuine Panda, they seem to suffer from road damage and be in demand.

These would suit your car nicely... nice width for the rims, correct rolling radius I'd think and "all Weather" so a good compromise between full winter and summer tyres....

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/175-60R14...752783?hash=item1c71f1bf0f:g:-H8AAOSwYIxX94m9

 

[digger58]

"After a few minutes trying to pry out the oil seal, having no luck and worrying I would end up damaging the head, i decided just to loosen the camshaft securing bolts which allowed the oil seal to be nudged out easily. Old one looked fairly old so was confident a new seal would fix my leak on this side"

Good trick for this is to screw in two self tappers, one either side of the seal and it gives you something to pull old seal out!

 

[kazer92]

Fun times

you're not gonna want to hear this!

Quick tinker under the bonnet yesterday over lunch time, to swap timing belt tensioners back to the new one after realising that I'd probably buggered the old one (currently installed) by spraying it with brake cleaner before reinstalling it a few weeks ago (wasn't thinking) which I was hoping would be the cause of my rattling/grinding noise.

Anyway, was putting the new tensioner on, tightening up the nut whilst holding the tensioner taught with a spanner, and in my haste/enthusiasm I sheared the tensioner stud clean off in the cylinder head. :bang:
Completely flush with the head with no exposed threads to help extract it. Fun.

After the nauseating panic wore off I realised the cylinder head would have to be removed to get enough access to extract the stud, and I'd be getting the train to work for the rest of the week.
As I'd only just pulled up outside the house in the middle of the road/culdesac (was meant to be a 2 minute swap), I had to basically parallel park the punto ON FOOT whilst dealing with the camber and slope of the road. More fun.

So then spent around 2/3 hours yesterday getting down to the cylinder head bolts and got the head off, also managing to line up a garage locally who would consider having a look. 5 minute walk and dropped the cylinder head into them in an Asda bag-for-life with some cardboard in the bottom,was told they probably wouldn't be able to look at it til late Monday/early Tuesday but guy seemed confident he could deal with it.

Don't have a drill with me here in Maidstone, and even back at my parents I don't have any thread extraction tools etc. other than the M8 helicoil kit I used for the thermostat bolt holes.
It's probably within my limited skillset to do myself, and the garage will probably shaft me 2 hours labour for a 15 minute job, but need it done quick and was fed up at that stage.

Have been endlessly Googling to find a replacement part for the broken/sheared stud, closest I got was through this thread which gives the part number through ePer (46548456) but no length:
https://www.fiatforum.com/punto/338702-tensioner-bolt.html

No luck on EuroCarCare website but haven't tried ringing up yet for help

So need to get something from somewhere, was thinking just an appropriately sized M8 exhaust/inlet manifold stud (ones for this engine would be too short) like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/M8-x-47mm-Manifold-Stud-Pack-of-5-/181299064426?hash=item2a36442e6a:gn0AAOxyRhBSz-Jj

No I won't be using a new headgasket when I reinstall anything.
No I won't be using new cylinder head bolts.
Yes the timing belt shredding is starting to make a comeback, will be able to investigate further now half the bloody engine is disassembled!

Any help much appreciated, lads at work saying it's time to say goodbye to this car and after yesterday I'm starting to agree with them! But to be fair, this was 100% my bloody fault

Some photos to follow soon

Cheers and regards

 

[kazer92]

Good trick for this is to screw in two self tappers, one either side of the seal and it gives you something to pull old seal out!

Did give this a go after seeing some Youtube videos but hadn't much space to get decent leverage on a screwdriver, and didn't want to risk damaging the head

 

[puntofan01]

Re: Fun times

Any help much appreciated, lads at work saying it's time to say goodbye to this car and after yesterday I'm starting to agree with them! But to be fair, this was 100% my bloody fault

Some photos to follow soon

Cheers and regards

Ignore your colleagues. Paddy is essentially a rolling restoration project, and a modern classic. Life isn't always going to be plain sailing. You've not that long since rebuilt the engine pretty much by yourself, so the chances are, you're going to encounter a few teething problems. Stick with it: Paddys' very survival depends on you!!

 

[blu73]

Re: Fun times

get some pics of the timing belt kazer so we can have a look at how and where its 'shredding' - can only really be that something is not lining up 100% right really though, but grab some pics anyway so i can see

 

[kazer92]

Only photo I got at the time, just showing the sheared stud.
Will get pictures tomorrow but regarding the belt, the black sheep's wool type stuff seems to mostly be down near the crank pulley. Running the belt through my hands as best I could with the tensioner off, the teeth have basically started getting smaller since I last looked, with one tooth actually 'floppy' and nearly coming away.
My thinking is that if the belt wasn't properly lined up on one of the pulleys, there'd be sign of wear on the edge where it's rubbing, but it seems to be across the whole width of the belt. So now I'm thinking it could be the water pump I installed when I replaced the head gasket, maybe it's pulley doesn't line up properly with the belt teeth? Don't really know it's an odd one!
As I said I'll get pics pronto

 

[digger58]

That stud should come out easy enough, good vice grip if you have room. If not something like this, As for the belt, there are different types of teeth, square section and rounded ones, are you sure the belt matches the teeth in the cam, crank and waterpump?

 

[blu73]

As diggers says, there is 2 different belts for the P75, its pre and post a certain engine number but can't remember what those numbers are off top of my head - I'll look 2moro as just heading to bed now. What you describe, wearing of the teeth rather than the edges of belt sounds like there is a mis-match in parts somewhere.. Not sure if you had the wrong belt that it would stay timed and looking at that pic (hard to tell for certain of course from a pic) it looks like the water pump peaks are narrower than the troughs on the belt (there is more than one water pump as well). My feeling is that the water pump maybe the wrong type but the belt is correct.

Without reading back this is pretty much exactly what happened to the last belt, and if you replaced parts with like for like then it will just be happening again if that was the problem all along. I'll do some looking at part numbers and stuff on the morrow if i find a half hour to search

 

[kazer92]

Yeah having a look on ECP at the 2 different water pumps for my reg number, that's got to be the problem. Just by looking at the pictures side by side I can tell that the pulley on the other pump (not the one I have) better matches the teeth on the camshaft pulley.
There's also 24 teeth on my pump, and 20 on the one I need



Will probably go with the KWP unit rather than Circolli, just as it has bigger/more impeller fins

Thinking of it, I have always had trouble getting the belt to 'grab' the water pump pulley properly....

Will have to order a new timing belt as well, might as well get a new tensioner too. Luckily they've still got the JanSale on!

 

[kazer92]

That stud should come out easy enough, good vice grip if you have room. If not something like this

No exposed threads for vice grips unfortunately, it's with the garage now but looked like an extractor tool/drill out job, hopefully will hear from them later today.

What's that tool in the picture?

 

[digger58]

Yeah having a look on ECP at the 2 different water pumps for my reg number, that's got to be the problem. Just by looking at the pictures side by side I can tell that the pulley on the other pump (not the one I have) better matches the teeth on the camshaft pulley.
There's also 24 teeth on my pump, and 20 on the one I need

View attachment 176417

Will probably go with the KWP unit rather than Circolli, just as it has bigger/more impeller fins

Thinking of it, I have always had trouble getting the belt to 'grab' the water pump pulley properly....

Will have to order a new timing belt as well, might as well get a new tensioner too. Luckily they've still got the JanSale on!

They are dear enough, Look here...http://www.mister-auto.ie/en/water-pump/fiat-punto-176-75-1-2-73hp_v3797_g1260.html
The tool is a stud extractor.

 

[blu73]

yep mister auto is great, i use them alot. good prices, good service

That said, in this circumstance Shop4Parts are cheaper, just had a look. Cheapest Mister-Auto is on UK site is £34.70 delivered for the pump and belt (bolk and dayco respectively)

S4P is £28.92, same belt but bugatti branded pump which I've used before, very nice quality. Also that price is not including the forum discount - think you have to donate to get access to the forum discount codes but can be any small number, literally anything and you get that donated member under your name like below my avatar. But S4P is 10% off everything.

S4P part numbers I have got are S4P546 for the timing belt and S4P673 for the pump.

 

[kazer92]

righto thanks for the help chaps, I did a click and collect at ECP due to time constraints, and with the JanSale discount it comes to around £56, but since I'll be getting free delivery I'll go with Shop4Parts (gonna get some Tutela ZC75 transmission oil (2x 1L) and timing belt cover since they're cheap!)

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=details&ProdID=72&sku=25227

https://www.shop4parts.co.uk/?name=store&op=Details&ProdID=8183&sku=110460

tricky to navigate but great range and prices to be fair

No luck finding a replacement tensioner stud but I've ordered a 45mm long M8 stainless steel stud off eBay which should do the trick

P.S. donated a few quid, have been meaning to for a while anyway! found the discount code easily enough, £47 ish quid in all

muchos gracias as always

 

[kazer92]

We're making progress!

Box of stuff arrived (at work ) earlier in the week from S4P, packaged so well it could have been dropped out of a helicopter!


Checking new water pump and belt for fitment


This hole in the new pump isn't on the other one, puzzled as to what it's for but oh well, hope it's not important!


So got the cylinder head back from the garage on Wednesday after work, £108 for 1.5 hrs work plus VAT (I always forget the VAT...) so an expensive lesson learnt. Could have done it myself for less than £20 with a drill and some kit of eBay no doubt, but it is what it is!

Got some photos of their work once home, not the tidiest job in the world but the threads are all fine. Cleaned out the hole with brake cleaner and tissue, and a handy little screwdriver with a magnetic tip which pulled out all the swarf/shavings.



more to come

 

[Visconti]

Nice tread, nice car and congratulations on the work you have done ! The simplicity , reliability and quality of MK1 puntos is known only to those who have driven and owned them. In my place (MONTENEGRO) there are still examples from 1994 being used as a daily drivers.


Cheers and will follow this topic with great interest!

 

[kazer92]

Sorry was too busy to follow on the last update at the time

Old water pump removed (wrong teeth size/shape as you can see compared to the new one)


Timing belt side of the engine before and after a good clean:


A big clump of shredded belt 'wool' that came off


Crankshaft pulley before and after clean:


New water pump installed (VTech blue RTV sealant used, initially bought for rocker cover)


New M8 stainless steel stud, washer and nut in the cylinder head holding on the timing belt tensioner


didn't take many photos after that as the process has been documented on this thread before, however I did stream it via Facebook Live with a view of the engine bay for over an hour just for a laugh, most of my mates don't truly understand the struggle!
(such comments include "not gonna lie dude this is boring af" and "why did I just waste an hour of my life")

finished result, car started eventually after fiddling with the timing a little, took about 5 long seconds to eventually fire up on the last go but got therein the end!


With team morale at a high after this all went quicker and easier than I thought, moved onto the rear subframe repair bushes

Bolts removed (did a lot of prep on this with Plusgas and a hammer):


old rubber 'things' that were between the plates of the subframe bushes, plucked out with a screwdriver and clearly not doing anything, and comparison with repair bushes:


Repair bushes pushed/hammered on top of the existing bushes and bolted down, really easy job in the end!


Took the Punto for a spin and a well needed car wash, then after letting the engine cool for a few minutes I did and oil and filter change. No photos of that as it's not terribly exciting. The engine's now running nice and smooth, probably the best it's ever been now with the proper water pump, new belts, spark plugs, fresh oil and the valve clearances done recently.


Will keep an eye out for leaks over the next few weeks (fingers crossed) before putting on the new timing belt cover. Also have the transmission oil to renew when I get a chance

cheers and regards as always :slayer:

 

[blu73]

good work, and hats off to your patience with the car. Bit of luck thats the end of the running issues for a good long while now.

 

[kazer92]

Thanks very much, yeah fingers crossed. No doubt reusing the headgasket & cylinder head bolts will come back to bite me but at least i'm a dab had at removing the cylinder head now

Also should add - after installing the rear subframe repair bushes, they have seemed to firm/tighten up the feeling I get from the rear of the car, but could tell as soon as I first headed off down the street that the rear right knocking/banging noise is still present.
Looks like it's got to be the rear radius arm bearings, which is a job I've heard is not the easiest even though the kits are cheap:
e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/310731759982?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Although I guess if that didn't work, complete new rear trailing arms aren't that expensive:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/371528080596?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Anyway not a particularly urgent issue, going to completely empty the car of tools and other crap (added weight and stuff rattling about) and see if that helps

 

[SB1500]

It's so awesome that a regular guy is giving a beloved old car such great attention and restoring. Every update is interesting to read!