General Here it is, officially the new Panda

[StevenRB45]

Qué?

Perhaps it's been out of the window for years.

In terms of the looks...

I think it does a better job of looking chunky than the C3. The C3 has that slightly gawky under wheeled stance of the the MG SUV thingy it looks a bit more planted with the box arches etc.

It will likely offer more wheels and colour choices than the C3 given theres no optional wheels on the C3 and 5 colours only.

Whether it's a "true panda" people outside of Italy might actually want to buy it so probably not.

It would seem the Citroën to Fiat relationship is.. Citroën does the absolute utility version of a vehicle and Fiat has something a bit more Jazzy but still utilitarian.

 

[rmjbn1]

Old news by now, but the Chinese (of course) have beaten Stellantis to it. Sort of.

Is it a Panda?! No!
Is it a Mini?! No!

It's the Geely Panda Mini! The crossover we weren't waiting for :/

 

[StevenRB45]

Erm don't forget it having the face of a honda E...oh and the crash protection of a t-shirt.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Less like a children's art project and more like a car.

Seems to have a better stance at least then the C3 unless it's concept car wheelage and ride height games.

Here’s your first look at the new Fiat Grande Panda

Reinvented Fiat icon will arrive in both hybrid and electric forms later this year

www.topgear.com

It does however look like a Jeep Avenger.

So the new panda is In fact a Vauxhall crossland….

I want to like it but as is usually the case with fiat anything remotely interesting in the concept is gone for the production version.


I would say at least the looks do carry the legacy of the old panda.

 

[StevenRB45]

So the new panda is In fact a Vauxhall crossland….

I want to like it but as is usually the case with fiat anything remotely interesting in the concept is gone for the production version.


I would say at least the looks do carry the legacy of the old panda.

It took me about 5 views to realise it's got PANDA stamped into the doors, which is not a cheap thing to do and means there's no commonality to the Citroën doors.

But yeah it's a bit underwhelming but the same time not offensive. I still think I prefer it to the Citroën version which is similarly generic with not much of the flair of the previous one but is admirably utilitarian.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

and means there's no commonality to the Citroën doors.

I would not at all be surprised if you peeled off just the outer skins of the doors, wings boot etc, if everything else was exactly the same, Same inner door panels, same inner wings, same inner boot panel. It is literally just a re-skinning of the same car.

There are no pictures of the interior as yet and Fiat made a big deal about bringing things like ques from the lingotto factory into the interior... whats the betting that has gone out the window and the interior is pretty much the same as the C3 version. Much like the 600 interior is the same as the Jeep with some minor detail changes here and there.

 

[StevenRB45]

Yes but that's standard platform share fayre..how far back do you need to strip and Audi A1 before it becomes indistinguishable from a Fabia?

I suspect you'll be correct on the interior...which is annoying because I like the Citroën concept and I quite liked the style but now it appears across Citroën, Fiat and Vauxhall it risks becoming generic blandness. In theory Fiat could be allowed to do their own interior elements given Vauxhall spent time and money making more boring interior pieces for their cars but starting feel rather like all they are going to do is change the nose and tail treatments.

If course the Fiat is unlikely to get the hydraulic suspension bits of the Citroën.

At one point all the PSA brands had their own steering wheels, gear knobs, interior door handles, dials, seats etc...so the things you see every day were unique to a marque. But it feels like the Fiat arm is very much making up for being penniless with 0 development money for 20 years by blasting parts bin lash ups out the door.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Yes but that's standard platform share fayre..how far back do you need to strip and Audi A1 before it becomes indistinguishable from a Fabia?

A fair comparison, a quick glance at some pictures would suggest it is more than re-skin between the two models with a different roof line but this is all largely semantic as they still share the same underpinning.

I suspect you'll be correct on the interior...which is annoying because I like the Citroën concept and I quite liked the style but now it appears across Citroën, Fiat and Vauxhall it risks becoming generic blandness. In theory Fiat could be allowed to do their own interior elements given Vauxhall spent time and money making more boring interior pieces for their cars but starting feel rather like all they are going to do is change the nose and tail treatments.

If course the Fiat is unlikely to get the hydraulic suspension bits of the Citroën.

At least Vauxhall have their thing. They are infinitely boring and they have stuck to their guns with their newer models so customers know where they stand.
The citron having fancy suspension is very in keeping with their history. But what is Fiats “thing” in this new group.
They don’t really have a nail on which to hang their hat?

At one point all the PSA brands had their own steering wheels, gear knobs, interior door handles, dials, seats etc...so the things you see every day were unique to a marque. But it feels like the Fiat arm is very much making up for being penniless with 0 development money for 20 years by blasting parts bin lash ups out the door.

I wonder if right now they just need to make and sell some cars to ensure their survival, a longer term plan may be for a more bespoke line up but right now each of the brands needs to just get themselves established with a modern line up

 

[StevenRB45]

The citron having fancy suspension is very in keeping with their history. But what is Fiats “thing” in this new group.
They don’t really have a nail on which to hang their hat?

Looking at the direction so far it feels like their position is a less hair shirt Citroën. If you compare the Topolino to the Ami and the Panda to the C3 while the are similar it seems there's a conscious effort to remove some of the strident money saving production decisions and perhaps add a bit of style back. So different ends on the Topolino...and the pressings on the Panda will add cost especially given they are also on the back. The lights as well appear more intricate, we'll see about the interior, my money is on some pretty bright colour options and the opportunity to spend money to get them while the Citroën is very much "it comes as it is".

I wonder if right now they just need to make and sell some cars to ensure their survival, a longer term plan may be for a more bespoke line up but right now each of the brands needs to just get themselves established with a modern line up

There may be an element of we know the Chinese are coming people can't buy something that doesn't exist so at facelift or model upgrade we'll do a bit more but right now we need something people can buy on the road that has it's roots in this millennium.

I do hope so as don't feel particularly excited about a world of interchangable cars.

 

[SB1500]

If that's the new Panda then... Honestly, I think it's over for Fiat. Sure, the 500e is a cool, quirky and innovative car today and came off the back of actual FCA Fiat. But this sets the bar incredibly low for the next 500. God knows nobody likes or respects or will take serious the current 'new' Abarth variants either. Abarth is a brand that should be put to bed before it's told no more engines, no more exhaust noise out of sheer respect. But this is the new era, there is no respect for Fiat and its brands in Stellantis. As mentioned, it will get the left overs of what else Citroen want to do with strict limitations to keep it within budget, an awkward place between utility and quirky Citroen, and utility and budget Vauxhall.

Does anybody know where Roberto Giolito went? He hit it out of the park with the modern 500 and the modern Panda whilst having to stick to a still very ancient technology / parts base. I can't see any of his ingenuity or creativity in this, or any of the mockups we've all discussed in recent years. Where is Bertone? Where is Italdesign?

I think Fiat is a goner. I won't buy one because it's not an actual Fiat, much less a Panda. A lot of the non-car people / masses won't buy it, because it's not exactly cheap or amongst the cheap options to buy anymore. Even the repeat Citroen / Vauxhall (cough Mobility cough) buyers probably won't look twice because why would they consider changing if it's either not saving them money or delivering them something more?

This Grande Panda concept gives me PTSD flashbacks to the front of that Vauxhall Grandland. If VAG can kill Seat - which somehow managed widespread appeal with nothing more than VW rehashes (even with the odd little unique, innovative or quirky design feature at times) - then I don't see why the French won't take this as a chance to dissolve Fiat altogether unless the sales figures stand up strongly to its beloved badges.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Does anybody know where Roberto Giolito went? He hit it out of the park with the modern 500 and the modern Panda whilst having to stick to a still very ancient technology / parts base. I can't see any of his ingenuity or creativity in this, or any of the mockups we've all discussed in recent years. Where is Bertone? Where is Italdesign?

I do love a well researched opinion

Roberto Giolito designed the very ugly concept, Frank Stephenson Designed the fiat 500 and basically saved the company. He was rewarded with a stint at Maserati and Ferrari before leaving to design for McLaren.

Bertone went bust, I don’t even need to look that one up

And Italdesign, well if you’re disgusted by a panda being designed by citron then you’re really going to hate something from Italdesign given who has owned them for over 10 years now…..


And given you drive or even own a fiat or any stellantis product now not buying one in the future is hardly going to affect their bottom line.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Old news by now, but the Chinese (of course) have beaten Stellantis to it. Sort of.

Is it a Panda?! No!
Is it a Mini?! No!

It's the Geely Panda Mini! The crossover we weren't waiting for :/

Is it an eye sore..


What do you think.

 

[StevenRB45]

Interior shots have turned up.

Fiat Grande Panda interior revealed

First spy photos show us the dashboard and cabin of the Grande Panda with its rounded, typically Fiat styling

uk.motor1.com

I quite like it, seems like nicer materials than the C3 and bit more interesting.

Assume the curved section across the dash is lingotto test track call back perhaps as advertised.

 

[SB1500]

Interior shots have turned up.

Fiat Grande Panda interior revealed

First spy photos show us the dashboard and cabin of the Grande Panda with its rounded, typically Fiat styling

uk.motor1.com

I quite like it, seems like nicer materials than the C3 and bit more interesting.

Assume the curved section across the dash is lingotto test track call back perhaps as advertised.

Interior is a lot better than I expected. Closer to the Centoventi concept and a little bit of Panda in that big open space in front of the passenger.

How did those relatively sharp, squared off air vents make it past health and safety though

I’ll give it to Stellantis, at least from this image, I rate it a step above current Vauxhall. I was honestly shocked to find the very same looking textured plastic interior trim in the Grandland from my mums old 2004 Corsa C. With this, the dash and centre console looks like outgoing Panda grade interior plastic, which is fine. steering wheel and other dash material looks very outgoing Panda material grade too. Not a bad thing. Shiny plastic steering wheel controls look like a Peugeot / modern Citroen scratchy finish. You only get one chance cleaning those before a permanent, unsightly scratchy occurs and never goes away (ask me how I know - stupid DS3 shiny dashboard insert)..

Inside looks better than the outside. As already remarks on… perhaps the outside will be a bit less, ugly, if they make some last minute changes for production versus those possibly early prototype concept pics

 

[StevenRB45]

Looks smaller to my eye in the wild..also better for not being baby sick yellow.

The Fiat Grande Panda is already on the road

Photographed during a photo session, the Fiat Grande Panda shows itself on the road and in another colour

uk.motor1.com

Interesting it's smaller than the C3 at sub 4m length as well. Although could just be different bumpers making the difference.

 

[portland_bill]

Why is the steering wheel not round?
Some of the Peugeot vans have a wheel flat along bottom and top.
This is nonsense. If you need to turn it in a hurry, it may not be where you expect it to be.
Everyone ridiculed the Allegro.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Looks smaller to my eye in the wild..also better for not being baby sick yellow.

The Fiat Grande Panda is already on the road

Photographed during a photo session, the Fiat Grande Panda shows itself on the road and in another colour

uk.motor1.com

Interesting it's smaller than the C3 at sub 4m length as well. Although could just be different bumpers making the difference.

I think if you look at the way fiat positioned itself with the topolino compared to the ami, and you look at the new panda headlights and interior compared to the very simple c3 it is clear that fiat is setting its level just about that of Citroen. It will be interesting to see how DS sits with any new models using the same platforms.

I actually think this could be quite the sales success for fiat, it will no doubt encourage a few past fiat fans back to the brand, there are plenty of die hard fans and enthusiasts who will want them.

on paper is seems to be a pretty good offering at a price point.

One big issue to getting sales is going to be the collapse of the dealer network especially here in the uk with many well trusted family run dealers no longer selling fiat
But in other parts of Europe especially on home soil it will probably sell like hot cakes

 

[StevenRB45]

Seems the structure is Citroën at the bottom doing comfortable utility cars. Fiat doing more configurable/styled versions of them. DS doing them with quilted leather and Swarovski headlamps. Peugeot doing "sporty" design lead (read style over substance) versions with a tiny steering wheel versions.

Vauxhall just doing what Vauxhall does and having no particular thing but being absolutely Vauxhall as a result.

Garage wise I'm seeing more and more names I recognise with brands I don't. So saw and advert for Drive recently they a big local VX dealer...except they are selling Peugeot. Also Bristol Street Peugeot....and my local dealer now apparently services and sells pretty much everything in Stellantis until you get to Alfa and Maserati.

Although I'm sure they'll sell Alfa once the Junior appears. Given the mechanics of the things are basically across the range working on them is largely the same regardless of the badge on the front.

 

[SB1500]

Garage wise I'm seeing more and more names I recognise with brands I don't.

I keep seeing in various YouTube videos involving dealers that a lot of them are sharing parts of their showrooms with Chinese EV makers. Even MB!

Given the collective sales attitudes, service advisor attitudes and quality of work done I've had at various dealerships / franchises, it does not surprise me that the dealer franchises are just going where they see money or hedging their bets by welcoming these tat-makers with open arms. But then... if they are to be believed in regards to Fiat, at least our now sole remaining dealer, reckons that Fiat haven't exactly made it easy for them to source used approved cars internally, nor have they been straightforward about new car orders, what's available and what isn't (apparently options and trims pulled at a whim or given unpredictable delivery dates) and then finally, they alerted me to the fact that the current Panda here in the UK, is selling for a lot more in real money terms than what you can pick one up in over in Europe - a much lesser price tag for the same car. So if the dealers are to be believed, it's not a shock that they're abandoning the brand.

Consolidation into 'Stellantis and Me' dealerships probably do make sense from a company point of view. The facade of different brands / badge models probably no longer needs a dedicated, standalone car sale lot to make people think they're buying one over the other. These days people don't really seem to care. Audi buyers don't care that they're buying a VW. Lexus buyers don't care that they're buying a Toyota. With Peugeot / Citroen / Vauxhall / Fiat all blurring the lines, I doubt the average buyer will care if they all visibly are sold from and serviced at the same place.

Weirdly, we had a really, really nice DS showroom and dealership opened around 2017 here by a local long time Citroen franchise owner. Down the road was a long time Hyundai dealer that shut up shop in 2021 or so. Not long after the DS showroom was stripped out... textured panels removed... fancy tiles replaced with plain white, brown walls painted white, Nespresso pod machine replaced with something lesser... I noticed there's quite a nice house along our main road, older guy, not in the best physical health but his house is nice enough that I know he probably has a bit of money and is retired. He's had everything from DS models, to that new funny looking big Citroen C4 but now... he has one of those Hyundai IONIQ models with the charger and all. Some people are loyal to a franchise network - not even the brand. Within a few steps he could go to VW, Toyota, Kia and now Vauxhall / Citroen too. I'm going to wait and see if this 'Stellantis and Me' thing happens, and it happens locally here, joining their recently merged Citroen / Vauxhall showroom on the same site, to see if he ever ends up with a next generation electric Fiat - since the same salesmen could maybe talk him into it... Shame about losing DS, though the service was never up there with MB or Lexus tbh, perhaps the brand forced them to close it..

 

[StevenRB45]

DS seem to be specialising in cars mainly for the french president these days. So I can fully understand a dealer using the floorspace for something that sells in numbers you'd need more than the fingers of one hand to count a month.

My local one has a DS area...then a Peugeot area and Citroën area but I've not been over since they started selling Jeep and Fiat.

If you want to do cheap cars...it makes sense to consolidate the dealers. They're approaching it from a different direction to how VW group have done it in the past in that there's no real pretense of the cars coming from different companies or competition between them.

I'd bet you could turn up at Skoda dealer with a VW and they'd know exactly what they were looking at but you can't do this due to group politics and the need for appearances.

In some ways Stellantis has an advantage as all the brands are mainstream and pretty low in the pecking order or have no real presence there's no "premium" experience crap to buy into it. You turn up with your car and a tech who's just finished fixing a Citroën can move on to servicing an Alfa.

Perhaps they will have a more premium offering with Alfa, Maserati and DS...but it's hard to see them selling enough cars to justify a standalone dealer.