Technical Help diagnose issue with Ducato

[bugsymike]

Replaced injector #2 and programmed it using MES. Did the test again on cold engine.

View attachment 458338

Injectors 1 and 3 returned ~35ml
Injector 2 (new) returned ~15ml
Injector 4 returned ~50ml

Does the new injector (2) return correct amount? Shouldn’t it return around the same amount as 1 and 3 injectors?

Still getting white smoke and knocking. Thinking of replacing injector 4, but the injectors 0445110418 are now out of stock and discontinued. It appears it was replaced by part number 0445110520 but I read on forum that it cannot be programmed using MES?

I think the replacement No.2 is running efficiently where as the others are worn to varying degrees.
Injectors need a little "leak off" to lubricate the moving parts of the injectors, unlike petrol injectors which are made of different materials as petrol is not self lubricating. Also much lower operating pressure requirements.
Re your early comments on no. 5 posting "What is not expected, is white smoke on cold start, which couldn’t be regen, since it doesn’t regen when engine is cold."
I have had a DPF issue on a 2012 Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6 diesel which was badly blocked and it definitely chucked out choking clouds of white fumes from stone cold, although it never cleared as your engine does and didn't smell like diesel fumes. I had to remove and clean the DPF , then tell the Computer that a new DPF had been fitted, after that it was fine for 4 years until I then fitted a new DPF.

 

[arnelis]

I think the replacement No.2 is running efficiently where as the others are worn to varying degrees.
Injectors need a little "leak off" to lubricate the moving parts of the injectors, unlike petrol injectors which are made of different materials as petrol is not self lubricating. Also much lower operating pressure requirements.
Re your early comments on no. 5 posting "What is not expected, is white smoke on cold start, which couldn’t be regen, since it doesn’t regen when engine is cold."
I have had a DPF issue on a 2012 Citroen C3 Picasso 1.6 diesel which was badly blocked and it definitely chucked out choking clouds of white fumes from stone cold, although it never cleared as your engine does and didn't smell like diesel fumes. I had to remove and clean the DPF , then tell the Computer that a new DPF had been fitted, after that it was fine for 4 years until I then fitted a new DPF.

DPF cleaning is on the list, waiting for better weather to do that. What I noticed in the garage while the car was running (for like 2 - 3 minutes), the smell was so intense that the throat started to itch. There was minimal white smoke during that time but something is definitely not right.

In the meantime, I'll try changing injector #4, but it seems part number 0445110418 is out of stock, so I'll try to figure out whether I will be able to code in 0445110520 (which is a replacement for 0445110418, confirmed by Bosch)

 

[bugsymike]

DPF cleaning is on the list, waiting for better weather to do that. What I noticed in the garage while the car was running (for like 2 - 3 minutes), the smell was so intense that the throat started to itch. There was minimal white smoke during that time but something is definitely not right.

In the meantime, I'll try changing injector #4, but it seems part number 0445110418 is out of stock, so I'll try to figure out whether I will be able to code in 0445110520 (which is a replacement for 0445110418, confirmed by Bosch)

What I mentioned with the Citroen was as you describe the smell (not diesel) but I did have clouds of white smoke and my diagnostic tool described the DPF as 90% full/choked and I was able to read the pressure readings of the DPF confirming this.
Are you getting any other symptoms on your diagnostics?

 

[arnelis]

What I mentioned with the Citroen was as you describe the smell (not diesel) but I did have clouds of white smoke and my diagnostic tool described the DPF as 90% full/choked and I was able to read the pressure readings of the DPF confirming this.
Are you getting any other symptoms on your diagnostics?

I ran force regen some time ago which changed clogging from ~30% (can't remember exactly) to 89%. As it was 90% for you, it is possible that the white smoke is due DPF. Possibly there could be several issues since I don't think that engine knocking / small hunting on idle would be the symptom of clogged DPF (but maybe?).

Do you remember what differential pressure values were you getting? I'm seeing <10 mbar on idle. I would need to take another look how it is on load.

 

[bugsymike]

I ran force regen some time ago which changed clogging from ~30% (can't remember exactly) to 89%. As it was 90% for you, it is possible that the white smoke is due DPF. Possibly there could be several issues since I don't think that engine knocking / small hunting on idle would be the symptom of clogged DPF (but maybe?).

Do you remember what differential pressure values were you getting? I'm seeing <10 mbar on idle. I would need to take another look how it is on load.

It was over five years ago, so sorry can't recall, also different make and engine size etc.
It was easy to take off on the Citroen and I used industrial bleach, oven cleaner liquid and a commercial garage steam cleaner.
Got a lot of brown muck out and it improved the water flow through it. I soaked it for a couple of days then used the steam cleaner.
However if diagnostics don't indicate that, then maybe a different direction to the fault.

 

[arnelis]

It was over five years ago, so sorry can't recall, also different make and engine size etc.
It was easy to take off on the Citroen and I used industrial bleach, oven cleaner liquid and a commercial garage steam cleaner.
Got a lot of brown muck out and it improved the water flow through it. I soaked it for a couple of days then used the steam cleaner.
However if diagnostics don't indicate that, then maybe a different direction to the fault.

Well, I'll try cleaning DPF. Just to clarify, after force regen the clogging recalculated and jumped to 89% - the higher the number the more clogged DPF is. So it could be similar situation as yours.

 

[bugsymike]

Well, I'll try cleaning DPF. Just to clarify, after force regen the clogging recalculated and jumped to 89% - the higher the number the more clogged DPF is. So it could be similar situation as yours.

Sorry I didn't get back , my internet has only just come back.
You could try a full bottle of DPF additive for the fuel tank and give it a good run around 2000-3000 RPM for 30 miles if possible without stopping, this should give the DPF the best chance of cleaning it's self. Temp should be in middle of gauge 90Degrees Centigrade.
I have had a better result doing that than forced regens.

 

[arnelis]

Update. Changed injector #4. No noticable improvement.

I have attached a video of the smoke.

Also I noticed few drops of oily liquid dropping from the exhaust pipe. Doesn't seem to be burning oil since the oil level doesn't drop but can't say for sure since van is not being used at the moment. If it would be burning oil, would there be smoke all the time, not only when the engine is cold?

 

[bugsymike]

Update. Changed injector #4. No noticable improvement.

I have attached a video of the smoke.

Also I noticed few drops of oily liquid dropping from the exhaust pipe. Doesn't seem to be burning oil since the oil level doesn't drop but can't say for sure since van is not being used at the moment. If it would be burning oil, would there be smoke all the time, not only when the engine is cold?

Video not working for me .
Is it oil or dirty/carbon /water.
Generally I only worry about what comes out of the exhaust after a run and fully warmed up, as silencer system holds a lot of moisture when cold.

 

[arnelis]

Video not working for me .
Is it oil or dirty/carbon /water.
Generally I only worry about what comes out of the exhaust after a run and fully warmed up, as silencer system holds a lot of moisture when cold.

There is a photo from the video

I'll take a photo of the residue next time I'm working on the van. But the liquid is clear like water with oily film on it. Engine was cold and the weather was around freezing.