Technical Grande punto 2008 not starting

[imranali333]

Looking at that list you've done a good deal more than many home mechanics so fair play to you.

Thanks the list is actually longer but that’s all I can remember at the moment, on Mercedes E class I had half the dash board out, and once the electronic steering lock failed, turned the key but nothing, just the cluster came on, common issue the motor fails inside the electronic steering lock, only Mercedes could program a new one on this newer model and wanted £1k as they obviously only replace the whole thing and it’s part of the security and Immobilser so no one had the stud to program new one, older models you could bypass it but end up with no steering lock anymore but on mine no one figured out anything yet, so took the steering wheel and clock spring and ton of other parts, whole steering column out to get to the part, took the electronic steering lock apart as I have experience in electronics, and replaced just the small dc motor as the PCB was ok, the motor inside which cost £15 but it was a nightmare to get to it, had to put my head in the footwell and I was upside down, so hard to get to some of the parts to remove the steering column and wiring, probably one of the hardest jobs I done so far as it required to remove so many things to get to it and strip down electronic components.
I’m no mechanic though and I just do research first to see if there’s any info available on the process, I wanted to do a clutch once but I didn’t fancy it on a drive and it was a 5 series bmw, local garage said £100 labour so I got them to do it which turned out to be a disaster again, 2 weeks after the new clutch was fitted the flywheel went, I don’t know why as they said it was fine, then had to spend £1k on another new clutch and flywheel and I already spent £300 on a clutch and labour, so spent £1300 then another disaster, car got stolen a month later and never saw it again, been 7 years now.

Anyways my wife’s Punto is sorted now, I replaced the starter motor with brand new one instead with the correct amount of teeth . I did put new ground wires aswell.

I’ve had issues with foul play on mot garages, I’ll tell you something happened once, wasn’t a mot issue but regarding garage, first car of mine was focus, the wiper wouldn’t work, went to garage he grabbed the wiper arm turned it and said yes the motors gone, going to cost £200 and we tallying nearly 20 years ago, and said will take 2 hours, didn’t have that money so by my house thought I’d stop at a garage and ask him, he done the exact same test, grab the wiper arm and tried to turn it and said your nut is loose and tightened it and said off you go, I asked him regarding money and he said no, unfortunately he’s retired and closed so can’t go there.

 

[imranali333]

Agree. There are some MOT centres that take the minimum approach too, passing anything because they don't want to fix issues on cheap cars, or don't want to have to book someone back in later.

The MOT in this country is quite stringent, and a lot of countries just don't have one. I'm not saying an MOT is a money making racket, but it could be reduced to tyres and brakes or every 2 years.

Cars fixed now, decided to go for new stater motor rather than try the old, it’s strange everywhere I went no one knows the starter can have more teeth , I went to this place and they said based on your reg it’s correct guaranteed , they gave it me but only 9 teeth but mine has 10, went to fiat place and they give me price but couldn’t tell me how many teeth and they look confused when I asked and said it will correct one and will need to order it, I ended up getting a Lucas one with 10 teeth even though the website says 9 teeth, I went to the place and asked them to show me all the starter motors, when I checked the Lucas it had 10 teeth so I got it, other options was starline and some other crap brands, Lucas used to be a good brand but I don’t know if they still are.
Anyway thanks for your help cars running fine and no screeching or no start issues, maybe the old one would have still worked but thought may as well fit new one.
I did go back to GSF as with my reg they had a 10 teeth one, it was WAI brand, when I got it I noticed it was huge compared to other one, the solenoid connection was different and no way it would fit in the space anyway, had so many issues sourcing correct one but managed to sort it

 

[AnthonyH]

The starter motor went on mine this year. I took a starter off a spare Punto I had at the time. I had that starter hanging around for a week in the house before I tried to put it on. So I had plenty of time to size it up. But when I put it on I broke the terminal off...it was annoying so then I had two broke ones to take to GSF to make sure I got the right one!!

Anyway all is well that ends well. A garage would have charged £200+ to put the starter on. So result.

 

[imranali333]

The starter motor went on mine this year. I took a starter off a spare Punto I had at the time. I had that starter hanging around for a week in the house before I tried to put it on. So I had plenty of time to size it up. But when I put it on I broke the terminal off...it was annoying so then I had two broke ones to take to GSF to make sure I got the right one!!

Anyway all is well that ends well. A garage would have charged £200+ to put the starter on. So result.

Glad it worked out for you, first time I removed the starter took me 30 minutes, last week I removed and replaced it in 20 minutes.
I won’t be going to any garages for most things, I just done the starter last week as I had issues with my back, car was sitting there but no way was I going to a garage again, in the past I thought I learned my lesson with garages but obviously not but now deffo not going to them unless it’s something I just can’t do.
I done the brake pads on my car last week as well as dealer wanted £700 just for the parts alone, unfortunately no company in Europe stock them as they only fit one car and aftermarket companies not making them yet, found some in USA for £70 delivered which are ceramic, only a few companies making them at the moment, original ones only lasted 15k miles and are junk and no way was I paying £700 for pads that only last 15k and then they will want god knows how much labour, that was simple, had to bleed the brakes, in the service manual says to use a pressure electronic bleeder and seemed crazy as it said do it at 50psi which I thought would destroy seals, I didn’t have a electronic one but I bought a pump version but the fitting was wrong so I done it the old school way, I have ordered correct fitting for my car for the future as I’m doing rear pads soon, rear ones easy to find as can get them anywhere as they are used a few vehicles so price is cheap as £25, they tried selling me Borg and beck and I told them I don’t like the brand as it’s cheap, they tried telling me it’s a top brand and garages use and love it but I’m not convinced, I ordered ceramic ones from Australian company who make performance pads, don’t know how good they will be, but they not expensive, will have to use diagnostic tool to release the electronic hand brake, think you can do it without it but I will do it the proper way. Learnt a few things this time and always good to learn

 

[imranali333]

Thanks to everyone, hopefully topic will help someone in the future especially the Teeth on the starter on grande punto non start stop version, some starters use 8 teeth, some use 9 or 10, you need the correct one so best thing to do is check part number on the original one or just remove it, I asked a few garages including one that had the car for two days and they couldn’t figure it out and the garages I asked don’t even know there’s more teeth on some, so best to do it yourself

 

[AnthonyH]

Glad it worked out for you, first time I removed the starter took me 30 minutes, last week I removed and replaced it in 20 minutes.

Fixing my starter ended up being a big job because I had to do it in 3 lots. First time to get the old starter off my spare car. Second time to put that on, which I broke. Third time to get a brand new starter on.

I won’t be going to any garages for most things, I just done the starter last week as I had issues with my back, car was sitting there but no way was I going to a garage again, in the past I thought I learned my lesson with garages but obviously not but now deffo not going to them unless it’s something I just can’t do.
I done the brake pads on my car last week as well as dealer wanted £700 just for the parts alone, unfortunately no company in Europe stock them as they only fit one car and aftermarket companies not making them yet, found some in USA for £70 delivered which are ceramic, only a few companies making them at the moment, original ones only lasted 15k miles and are junk and

£700 for pads sounds like extortion.

no way was I paying £700 for pads that only last 15k and then they will want god knows how much labour, that was simple, had to bleed the brakes, in the service manual says to use a pressure electronic bleeder and seemed crazy as it said do it at 50psi which I thought would destroy seals, I didn’t have a electronic one but I bought a pump version but the fitting was wrong so I done it the old school way, I have ordered correct fitting for my car for the future as I’m doing rear pads soon, rear ones easy to find as can get them anywhere as they are used a few vehicles so price is cheap as £25, they tried selling me Borg and beck and I told them I don’t like the brand as it’s cheap, they tried telling me it’s a top brand and garages use and love it but I’m not convinced, I ordered ceramic ones from Australian company who make performance pads, don’t know how good they will be, but they not expensive, will have to use diagnostic tool to release the electronic hand brake, think you can do it without it but I will do it the proper way. Learnt a few things this time and always good to learn

I find it hard to believe the bleeding must be done at 50psi. Perhaps someone else will have thoughts about that?

I enjoy the learning as much as saving money.

 

[imranali333]

Fixing my starter ended up being a big job because I had to do it in 3 lots. First time to get the old starter off my spare car. Second time to put that on, which I broke. Third time to get a brand new starter on.



£700 for pads sounds like extortion.




I find it hard to believe the bleeding must be done at 50psi. Perhaps someone else will have thoughts about that?

I enjoy the learning as much as saving money.

Yh same here I had to mess around taking stater on and off and turned into a long process, I haven’t been well so that delayed it a lot. I’m always learning and that’s great and hopefully someone else can benefit from my mistakes and garages mistakes, it’s not my field and I’m just a amateur so always good to learn.

Yes £700 for pads alone and god knows how much labour they wanted, conversation never even got that far as I’m not paying £700 for pads that only lasted me 15k miles last time. They must be made from some soft material, I honestly don’t know and never had any pads last only 15k.
What do you think of the Borg and Beck brand ?

Yh I’m puzzled regarding the 50psi to bleed brakes, I just don’t understand if 50psi is safe to even do. The pump bleeder I doubt it can even do 50psi but you can get one that goes to a air compressor and I do have a air compressor if required, I could probably modify the pump bleeder do attach to air compressor but I don’t know if it will withstand 50psi, I’ll be doing the rear pads on next month, waiting for pads to arrive from Australia, bought them from UK Company but they emailed me they need to order them but I’m in no rush for the rear ones so I agreed, just a quick note the pads are nothing to do with fiat car but either way 50psi seems too much to me.

 

[imranali333]

Just a bit of other info, had the ABS light on a while and diagnostic said Left from wheel speed sensor, decided to check the wiring first rather than replace the sensor and noticed the wiring wasn’t in great shape, the connector for the wheel speed sensors wiring I’m talking about, checked it and 1 wire had a break right by the connector, repaired the wire and ABS light is gone, so before anyone buys a sensor next to check wiring first

 

[AnthonyH]

I've been wondering if the ABS wiring sensor actually works in my car. I know the low brake pad depth sensor doesn't work. When i replaced the pads last year the wire had been sawed off but i didn't get any dashboard lights. Its barely worth connecting a wire which you know doesn't work, but i did anyway!

 

[AnthonyH]

What do you think of the Borg and Beck brand ?

I have heard the name Borg and Beck but don't have any sense of whether they are good or not.

One of the big wins for a Punto is the availability of cheap second hand parts on ebay. Generally I buy the cheapest I can find on ebay and if the part causes any issues send it back and buy from GSF.

GSF sell better quality parts, and I can pick up parts the same day but there's a price premium to be paid. GSF parts, whichever brand, have never failed on me.

 

[imranali333]

I've been wondering if the ABS wiring sensor actually works in my car. I know the low brake pad depth sensor doesn't work. When i replaced the pads last year the wire had been sawed off but i didn't get any dashboard lights. Its barely worth connecting a wire which you know doesn't work, but i did anyway!

If your actual ABS sensor didn’t work I presume you would get a light.
I don’t think the brake pad sensor works as the pads was gone and I didn’t get a warning unless it’s the ABS light that comes on as that was already on regarding the ABS wheel speed wiring issue. Finally no lights now and the wiring repair has been fine now for a week so I guess it’s fixed

 

[imranali333]

I have heard the name Borg and Beck but don't have any sense of whether they are good or not.

One of the big wins for a Punto is the availability of cheap second hand parts on ebay. Generally I buy the cheapest I can find on ebay and if the part causes any issues send it back and buy from GSF.

GSF sell better quality parts, and I can pick up parts the same day but there's a price premium to be paid. GSF parts, whichever brand, have never failed on me.

I need to replace anti roll bar links as I noticed the rubber boot was damaged on one, was thinking to get them off eBay as there’s a offer for £8 for 2 but I can’t see them lasting.
The GSF brands I thought was average and I heard bushes and ball joints and control arms only last a year the fail but I don’t know how true that is

 

[AnthonyH]

I need to replace anti roll bar links as I noticed the rubber boot was damaged on one, was thinking to get them off eBay as there’s a offer for £8 for 2 but I can’t see them lasting.

I think if the anti roll bar bushes have failed you'll hear a clunk when you turn a corner sharply.

I recently replaced the front subframe and when i took the anti roll bar off, one of it's bolt heads sheared and broke off, causing me a headache. I left the old bushes in place.

The GSF brands I thought was average and I heard bushes and ball joints and control arms only last a year the fail but I don’t know how true that is

A lot of garages use GSF for their same day delivery service. I don't think commercial garages would use them if their parts were often faulty.

 

[imranali333]

I think if the anti roll bar bushes have failed you'll hear a clunk when you turn a corner sharply.

I recently replaced the front subframe and when i took the anti roll bar off, one of it's bolt heads sheared and broke off, causing me a headache. I left the old bushes in place.



A lot of garages use GSF for their same day delivery service. I don't think commercial garages would use them if their parts were often faulty.

I haven’t checked the anti roll bar links properly, there’s some noise when going over a bump but the boots damaged so will need changing, and I need to check where the noise is coming from.
I know it’s very common on these for subframes to corrode, this one don’t look too bad.

I’m not a big fan of ECP or GSF as most brands they got are not great, I actually got some anti roll bar links which I got for pennies on Amazon once for bmw 5 series, I just bought them as they was couple of quid and they had some crazy prices for car parts so bought quite a few for my 5 series to use in the future, things like front and rear pads for few quid, brake discs for few quid, filters, tie rods, shocks etc, they was all priced for pennies for some reason, bought them to use once my car needs them, never got to use them as car got stolen, the size of the drop links is same but only difference is one ball joint is welded at a different angle so might cut it off and weld it back on at the correct angle, need to make sure the threads on the ball joint will actually go through the hole on the anti roll bar

 

[AnthonyH]

I think I paid £10 for one droplink/anti-roll bar off GSF. If i remember correctly I wanted the job done quickly and went to pick them up within the hour. Ebay is definitely better priced.

Mine had a 17mm spanner hidden on the back and 15mm on the front nut. There are a lot of youtube videos that'll have you believe you need a wrench on the back, and I ruined a droplink without realising it had a 17mm for there.

 

[Greasytrucker]

I have heard the name Borg and Beck but don't have any sense of whether they are good or not.

One of the big wins for a Punto is the availability of cheap second hand parts on ebay. Generally I buy the cheapest I can find on ebay and if the part causes any issues send it back and buy from GSF.

GSF sell better quality parts, and I can pick up parts the same day but there's a price premium to be paid. GSF parts, whichever brand, have never failed on me.

Borg and Beck have been around for years and are a reputable brand, part of a bigger motor parts company now but i’d still trust them i think

 

[Johnspanda]

How can we help you, if professional garage can't find what's wrong?
Go to another, different workshop. Find less clueless ("wanna-be") "mechanic".
This is very simple car. And basic rules are the same for all cars (Timing, Compression, Ignition, Fuel, Air), principle of operation.

Plus schematic, electrical stuff. Available here. Show them the link, so they can learn more about Grande. Clearly they are not familiar with the brand and model.
https://aftersales.fiat.com/elearnsections/main.aspx?nodeID=199001396&languageID=2&markID=1&modelID=199000000&valID=199000000&prodID=199000000&modelName=Fiat - 199 - Grande Punto&langDesc=English&sectionName=Impianto Elettrico&validityName=1.2 8v

Make them check basics of power delivery (battery, alternator, main ground, main fuse/relay box - corrosion).
https://www.fiatforum.com/grande-punto/318839-electrical-gremlin-thread.html

Probably starter motor

 

[AnthonyH]

Probably starter motor

Its been fixed, and it was the starter motor.

This thread is now in the "post job" phase.

 

[imranali333]

Borg and Beck have been around for years and are a reputable brand, part of a bigger motor parts company now but i’d still trust them i think

I been reading up about them, most say they was great but now someone else bought them and now they get some Chinese company to make the parts, but I’m not sure why that’s why I was asking

 

[imranali333]

I think I paid £10 for one droplink/anti-roll bar off GSF. If i remember correctly I wanted the job done quickly and went to pick them up within the hour. Ebay is definitely better priced.

Mine had a 17mm spanner hidden on the back and 15mm on the front nut. There are a lot of youtube videos that'll have you believe you need a wrench on the back, and I ruined a droplink without realising it had a 17mm for there.

Yh local places are great when you need parts fast, I’ve used them many times, they do sell some decent parts aswell but some are just junk.
I’m going to change the anti roll bar links next, weather is crap right now and it’s not looking great for next few days either, I hate working on cars in the winter, I guess I’ll find out if there’s any other hidden issues as MOT is due in April and best I check all the suspension etc, brakes and exhaust is good so that should be fine, just need to check the ball joints and tie rods and bushes for any play.

Still need to change oil and filter on my main car as the service schedule is junk, every 2 years the manual says which I will never want to stick to, the dealer does the service every 2 years but in between I will change oil and filter myself so that’s next on my list then I’ll tackle the anti roll bar links on the punto.