Technical Grande punto 2008 not starting

[AnthonyH]

Yes I understand that thanks, I will be checking that

Get a new wire off ebay, and put it on, they're about £10. You can leave the old one in place.

 

[Dlub]

To be clearer,

I'm talking about the earth wire from the battery to the car chassis and then on to the gearbox.

Not the negative wire leading to the starter.

They're different wires.

I’m also talking about the wire to the gearbox. There is no negative wire to the starter? The current flows through the block to the gearbox and then battery. The starter is supplied with a small and a big red wire. One for the relay and the other main 12v supply line.

 

[imranali333]

Right I had a Quick Look and test the battery, weather not great so can’t do alot at the moment, the battery tests shows it’s very healthy and test was good, crank test was good, charging test was good, I had a Quick Look at the wire going from the battery to the block and it looks good with no rust or corrosion, obviously I will have to check it properly and check the other wire as there’s 2 as far as I know, will hopefully check both wires properly tomorrow.

 

[imranali333]

I’m also talking about the wire to the gearbox. There is no negative wire to the starter? The current flows through the block to the gearbox and then battery. The starter is supplied with a small and a big red wire. One for the relay and the other main 12v supply line.

Yes there’s only 2 wires going to the starter, the negative is I presume from the body of the starter

 

[imranali333]

Get a new wire off ebay, and put it on, they're about £10. You can leave the old one in place.

Yh I can try adding another wire, won’t hurt

 

[Zapa]

Yh I can try adding another wire, won’t hurt

Pull the ground cable. The cable lug is probably broken. This is a very insidious fault on the Punto, it is difficult to find. If this is the fault, you just need to crimp a new cable lug onto the end of the cable and your car will start running again. If you stand facing the car with the roof of the open engine compartment on the right side, under the battery, the ground cable is attached to the bodywork. This is where the cable lug breaks, but due to the insulation, it is difficult to detect when the engine is moving where there is contact and where there is not. From the symptoms you described, I would guess this. Tip: If the ground cable is the problem, the car will start by pushing.

 

[imranali333]

Pull the ground cable. The cable lug is probably broken. This is a very insidious fault on the Punto, it is difficult to find. If this is the fault, you just need to crimp a new cable lug onto the end of the cable and your car will start running again. If you stand facing the car with the roof of the open engine compartment on the right side, under the battery, the ground cable is attached to the bodywork. This is where the cable lug breaks, but due to the insulation, it is difficult to detect when the engine is moving where there is contact and where there is not. From the symptoms you described, I would guess this. Tip: If the ground cable is the problem, the car will start by pushing.

I got issue with my back at the moment but since new starter motor car starts but sometimes won’t and makes a screeching noise so just turn ignition off and try again and it will start, I need to check the ground wires properly once my back gets better and I’ll update

 

[AnthonyH]

I got issue with my back at the moment but since new starter motor car starts but sometimes won’t and makes a screeching noise so just turn ignition off and try again and it will start, I need to check the ground wires properly once my back gets better and I’ll update

Bare in mind that the damage to the earth wire is almost always hidden. Even if it looks fine it's still probably going to be bad.

 

[Bartoosh]

Quick update, I phoned the garage and he said it will starts sometimes but sometimes it won’t, he said possibly the flywheel but he will check tomorrow, if it is the flywheel then I don’t think it’s worth repairing

Was it the same garage? Given that he initially misdiagnosed the starter motor, I wouldn't trust his latest diagnosis of the flywheel. Throwing parts at the problem is an expensive way to tackle the issue.

As others have mentioned, this requires careful diagnosis starting with the earth cable running from the negative battery terminal to the chassis and gearbox. These are a common issue and often the source of such strange problems. It's very difficult to gauge the condition of the earth cable just by visual inspection. It could appear ok externally but may be corroded internally. You can test by running a negative jump lead to the block.

Lots of advice on electrical gremlins and earthing issues in Andy's guides:

The Electrical gremlin thread....... | FIAT Grande Punto

So you have had one or combination below: Imobiliser light staying on Random power steering issues Battery charging issues Lights looking dimmer than normal Airbag light coming on Car been weak starting dispite battery been healthy Random temperature gauge readings These all can be a...

www.fiatforum.com

Grande Punto Engine bay Earthing Points

Tools needed 13mm socket and a LONG extension bar or 2 and T brace (13mm combination spanner will do at a push although one earth point NEEDS a 13mm socket) a 10mm socket and small ratchet fine Emmery paper /wire wool small wire brush Some...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[imranali333]

Was it the same garage? Given that he initially misdiagnosed the starter motor, I wouldn't trust his latest diagnosis of the flywheel. Throwing parts at the problem is an expensive way to tackle the issue.

As others have mentioned, this requires careful diagnosis starting with the earth cable running from the negative battery terminal to the chassis and gearbox. These are a common issue and often the source of such strange problems. It's very difficult to gauge the condition of the earth cable just by visual inspection. It could appear ok externally but may be corroded internally. You can test by running a negative jump lead to the block.

Lots of advice on electrical gremlins and earthing issues in Andy's guides:

The Electrical gremlin thread....... | FIAT Grande Punto

So you have had one or combination below: Imobiliser light staying on Random power steering issues Battery charging issues Lights looking dimmer than normal Airbag light coming on Car been weak starting dispite battery been healthy Random temperature gauge readings These all can be a...

www.fiatforum.com

Grande Punto Engine bay Earthing Points

Tools needed 13mm socket and a LONG extension bar or 2 and T brace (13mm combination spanner will do at a push although one earth point NEEDS a 13mm socket) a 10mm socket and small ratchet fine Emmery paper /wire wool small wire brush Some...

www.fiatforum.com

Hi it wasn’t the same garage that diagnosed the starter, I did get some time to check as my back been playing up, I checked the ground wires and they look perfect and test ok with multimeter, so I just in case added one new wire to the block and one new wire to the chassis, didn’t fix the issue, sometimes car starts, sometimes stater makes screeching noise and sometimes nothing happens from the stater at all, all the ignition lights come up but nothing From the starter when try to start. I did check everything in them links you gave but everything seems, I don’t know what to check next to be honest

 

[imranali333]

Bear in mind that the damage to the earth wire is almost always hidden. Even if it looks fine it's still probably going to be bad.

Wasn’t the ground wires, old ones tested good and didn’t look bad, added new wire to block and chassis but that didn’t work, in the service manual says check switch and relay, just need to figure out which switch they talking about and which relay is the starter one

 

[AnthonyH]

There's a starter motor relay that is worth checking, sometimes they stick.

It'll be in the fusebox in the engine compartment.

Check this thread.

Won’t start help please | FIAT Grande Punto

Hi guys need advice, so basically wife took car out to go shopping and all ok but when she got back in the car it wouldn’t start so bumped started it to get her home and to be quick we have done the following; New battery New starter motor Checked all relays and fuses for starter motor Still...

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Bartoosh]

Hi it wasn’t the same garage that diagnosed the starter, I did get some time to check as my back been playing up, I checked the ground wires and they look perfect and test ok with multimeter, so I just in case added one new wire to the block and one new wire to the chassis, didn’t fix the issue, sometimes car starts, sometimes stater makes screeching noise and sometimes nothing happens from the stater at all, all the ignition lights come up but nothing From the starter when try to start. I did check everything in them links you gave but everything seems, I don’t know what to check next to be honest

Flywheels are usually highly durable engine components, but like any car part, they can have issues and wear over time. A damaged flywheel ring gear can make it difficult to start the engine, however flywheel issues typically result in a grinding noise, not squeaking. Squeaking or squealing noises typically indicate a problem with a belt (e.g. drive/serpentine belt or alternator belt worn or not at correct tension) or a pulley that the serpentine belt is driving could be seized. Clicking noises are more indicative of dead battery, loose or corroded wiring, faulty starter motor, faulty ignition switch, corroded battery terminals or the immobiliser cutting in.

 

[imranali333]

There's a starter motor relay that is worth checking, sometimes they stick.

It'll be in the fusebox in the engine compartment.

Check this thread.

Won’t start help please | FIAT Grande Punto

Hi guys need advice, so basically wife took car out to go shopping and all ok but when she got back in the car it wouldn’t start so bumped started it to get her home and to be quick we have done the following; New battery New starter motor Checked all relays and fuses for starter motor Still...

www.fiatforum.com

I did check that thread, they talk about 3 wires going to starter but the guy who made the post said there’s only 2, from what I saw a video from Haynes there’s only 2 wires that go on to starter not 3 so I don’t know what the 3rd wire is they talking about, is the relay same location as they mentioned ?

 

[imranali333]

Flywheels are usually highly durable engine components, but like any car part, they can have issues and wear over time. A damaged flywheel ring gear can make it difficult to start the engine, however flywheel issues typically result in a grinding noise, not squeaking. Squeaking or squealing noises typically indicate a problem with a belt (e.g. drive/serpentine belt or alternator belt worn or not at correct tension) or a pulley that the serpentine belt is driving could be seized. Clicking noises are more indicative of dead battery, loose or corroded wiring, faulty starter motor, faulty ignition switch, corroded battery terminals or the immobiliser cutting in.

I don’t think it’s the flywheel as sometimes nothing at all happens when key is turned, will check the starter next to see if it’s wired up correctly, I presume it is and if it is then don’t know what else to check

 

[Bartoosh]

I don’t think it’s the flywheel as sometimes nothing at all happens when key is turned, will check the starter next to see if it’s wired up correctly, I presume it is and if it is then don’t know what else to check

I just gave you a whole bunch of possibilities so perhaps run through these. In an earlier post you indicated that the noise is squeaking or squealing. Based on this it could be the drive belt or one of the pulleys it's attached to. I've seen instances where a worn or poorly tensioned belt, or a seized pulley results in intermittent starting. Also check the starter motor relay as these can get stuck. You can swap it with a similar relay that you know to be working. Look online for the fusebox layout for your vehicle; this will tell you the layout of fuses and relays so you can identify the correct one.

 

[AnthonyH]

is the relay same location as they mentioned ?

From this thread it appears the relay is number 13.

Take the lid off the fusebox
Look at the inside of the lid where there should be a fusebox diagram
Identify number 13
Stand to the side of the car, not in front
Put your fingers on number 13 and have someone else start the car in neutral
If the relay is working it'll click and you may feel movement inside the relay
Alternatively swap the relay with another one currently on the car, or buy one off ebay and test

 

[imranali333]

I just gave you a whole bunch of possibilities so perhaps run through these. In an earlier post you indicated that the noise is squeaking or squealing. Based on this it could be the drive belt or one of the pulleys it's attached to. I've seen instances where a worn or poorly tensioned belt, or a seized pulley results in intermittent starting. Also check the starter motor relay as these can get stuck. You can swap it with a similar relay that you know to be working. Look online for the fusebox layout for your vehicle; this will tell you the layout of fuses and relays so you can identify the correct one.

That’s what I’m looking into mate, if I remember right when I heard the squeaky noise the drivebelt didn’t even turn all I heard was the noise coming from the starter area, I’m checking the relay next, they said it’s fine but I will check it and check the wiring on the starter

 

[imranali333]

From this thread it appears the relay is number 13.

Take the lid off the fusebox
Look at the inside of the lid where there should be a fusebox diagram
Identify number 13
Stand to the side of the car, not in front
Put your fingers on number 13 and have someone else start the car in neutral
If the relay is working it'll click and you may feel movement inside the relay
Alternatively swap the relay with another one currently on the car, or buy one off ebay and test

Check this picture as it says T18, I presume that’s the one

 

[AnthonyH]

Check this picture as it says T18, I presume that’s the one

Yes looks like T18. Test that one.