General Facelift Fiat Panda 319.

[TheR]

Can't say I ever noticed that but I have the stereo on pretty loud most of the time.
It's not unheardcof for turbo'ed cars though.
You probably pull it high up threw the rev range.

 

[The Pretender]

Never noticed that either when i have a spirited drive.
Not that i pay any attention to that.

 

[gar074]

I'm only aware of it when the back seat is folded down, and the exhaust noise comes into the cabin. It's quite addictive. I now know that I'm not trying hard enough if it doesn't make a little rasping, f*arting noise with each gear-change

 

[SB1500]

I'm so disappointed that they're discontinuing the 1.2 FIRE.. I've come to love it so much in my 169 Panda.

Without a doubt, it will be replaced in many years time with the latest Panda at that time. Whether that be a Lounge or a Pop is much dependent on how much money I earn then! But I'm decided on a Panda. I was so tempted by the Ford Ka+ that they're showing off, it's seemingly a much better car for less money than even the current POP but this morning I drove to work in my Panda and got that recurring feeling "how could I ever replace this car with anything else" ..

I liked the FIRE as even though it's much slower in the new Panda it's a 4 cylinder, doesn't get out of breath like Corsa's I've driven and annoyingly reliable to the likes of mechanics.

I can only hope that Fiat replace it with something as dependable above all. I'll likely go for the cheapest engine as I'm not a fan of speed. No doubt it'll easily achieve the 56MPG my trusty old Panda gets.

The TwinAir mustn't be that dependable if Fiat are calling it a day so soon on it...

 

[The Pretender]

The new Panda weigh more, making it slower and less economical then the 169 Panda with the same 1.2ltr FIRE engine.
The TwinAir engine is in the Netherlands also available as a "NON" turbo version with 60 hp, (65 hp in the past) and with roughly the same performance as the 1.2ltr FIRE.
The all new "NON" turbo 3 cylinder 1.0ltr 80 hp GSE-engine will most likely perform in the same window.
The new GSE engine family use in big lines the TwinAir as a starting point for the new engine development.

 

[TheR]

The TwinAir mustn't be that dependable if Fiat are calling it a day so soon on it...

Don't know where you get this from. I've never heard or read of any problems with the twinair turbo engines. They have been around for quite some time now and there are plenty of 500's and Panda's around already with plenty of milage. I also think that the twinair will stay for a little while yet seeing that the Panda will be around for at least one or two years.

 

[SB1500]

Don't know where you get this from. I've never heard or read of any problems with the twinair turbo engines. They have been around for quite some time now and there are plenty of 500's and Panda's around already with plenty of milage. I also think that the twinair will stay for a little while yet seeing that the Panda will be around for at least one or two years.

I can't see small 2/3 cylinder engines (when turbocharged or pushed to the max - e.g. a lot of motorway driving) taking the same pressure on their seals and key components in its stride as well as a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine.. something has to give.

Coupled with the worse fuel economy at the likes of 70mph I can only see an advantage in them during the first few years whilst they work perfectly, and around the city where they really suit.

I don't think any companies small petrol / turbo'd engine ranges have been out long enough yet to really know how they age at the likes of 10 - 15 years on...

Given the manufacturers obsession with trying to get us all to trade in after 5-6 years at most it wouldn't surprise me if they were perfectly aware of limitations and their idea was that we'd simply trade in and not even try to keep these small engines going once they become more trouble than they're worth.

 

[jrkitching]

I've never heard or read of any problems with the twinair turbo engines.

There have certainly been some reported issues on this forum, though I wouldn't say the floodgates have opened, at least not yet anyhow.

The three primary concerns are the multiair system, the turbo and (on Euro6 variants) the DMF. All have been known to fail on relatively young, low mileage cars - the unfortunate owner of the latest DMF failure is looking at a potential £5k bill on a 38 month old car.

Whether the TA engine has the long term durability of the 1.2 FIRE is, as yet, unknown. Personally I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't stop me buying a new TA if I was planning to change it after 3yrs or so. If I were looking for a long term keeper, then I'd be looking elsewhere.

It's not that easy to find the right balance between giving false reassurance and unnecessarily alarming potential buyers.

 

[TheR]

I can't see small 2/3 cylinder engines (when turbocharged or pushed to the max - e.g. a lot of motorway driving) taking the same pressure on their seals and key components in its stride as well as a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine.. something has to give.

Coupled with the worse fuel economy at the likes of 70mph I can only see an advantage in them during the first few years whilst they work perfectly, and around the city where they really suit.

I don't think any companies small petrol / turbo'd engine ranges have been out long enough yet to really know how they age at the likes of 10 - 15 years on...

Given the manufacturers obsession with trying to get us all to trade in after 5-6 years at most it wouldn't surprise me if they were perfectly aware of limitations and their idea was that we'd simply trade in and not even try to keep these small engines going once they become more trouble than they're worth.

Lot of good points and we will have to wait and see but as for now you would have to try very hard to find anyone who writes on having a problem with the twinair engine(same can't be said of lot's of other highly valued manufacturars).
So to just asume and call them unreliable just because you think so strikes me as a bit odd.They have been here since 2010 so there must be plenty of people out there with some pretty high milage. As I only drive 10000km a year I think I will be fine for ten years. After that it will be worth nothing so who cares. With high labor costs at the dealer nowadays almost any small cheap car after 10 years regardless of what engine won't be worth fixing when big things come along.

 

[TheR]

There have certainly been some reported issues on this forum, though I wouldn't say the floodgates have opened, at least not yet anyhow.

The three primary concerns are the multiair system, the turbo and (on Euro6 variants) the DMF. All have been known to fail on relatively young, low mileage cars - the unfortunate owner of the latest DMF failure is looking at a potential £5k bill on a 38 month old car.

Whether the TA engine has the long term durability of the 1.2 FIRE is, as yet, unknown. Personally I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't stop me buying a new TA if I was planning to change it after 3yrs or so. If I were looking for a long term keeper, then I'd be looking elsewhere.

It's not that easy to find the right balance between giving false reassurance and unnecessarily alarming potential buyers.

I have read of one dmf on a Fiat but that might have well been due to abuse by a prior owner.The multiair is something to worry about so very importent to change oil regularly and with good quality oil. Even haven't heard/read of many turbo's failing.
But for now as I said before you won't find many problems on the worldwide web wich in itselve is pretty unique.
Honestly I've read about more problems on the 1.2 fire engines and esspecialy about the latest offerings.

 

[puntofan01]

I'm so disappointed that they're discontinuing the 1.2 FIRE.. I've come to love it so much in my 169 Panda.

I can't see small 2/3 cylinder engines (when turbocharged or pushed to the max - e.g. a lot of motorway driving) taking the same pressure on their seals and key components in its stride as well as a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated engine.. something has to give.

Coupled with the worse fuel economy at the likes of 70mph I can only see an advantage in them during the first few years whilst they work perfectly, and around the city where they really suit.

I don't think any companies small petrol / turbo'd engine ranges have been out long enough yet to really know how they age at the likes of 10 - 15 years on...

Given the manufacturers obsession with trying to get us all to trade in after 5-6 years at most it wouldn't surprise me if they were perfectly aware of limitations and their idea was that we'd simply trade in and not even try to keep these small engines going once they become more trouble than they're worth.

The FIRE engines are indeed brilliant: I had the 60bhp 1.2 8v in my old mk2b, and now have the 77bhp 1.4 8v in my Grande. Both provide surprisingly lively performance for their low outputs combined with a characterful noise and good economy. However, the basic design dates back to the 1980s, and I'd imagine Fiat are finding it increasingly difficult to make them compliant with ever more stringent emissions legislation, plus they're not capable of delivering the tempting mpg figures in the official test that the latest engines designs claim. (Although I'd almost put money on them being every bit as economical, if not better, in the real world.) Thus, Fiat are having to develop brand new engines. As sad as it will be to see the end of the extremely versatile FIRE range, I have faith in Fiat to make a worthy replacement for them.

With regards to the downsized turbo engine craze, I don't think we'll see any issues with longevity, (providing they're looked after of course,) as manufacturers subject new models and designs to pretty hefty testing in order to get them right, (although granted, it isn't unknown for problems to arise in the future,) but as has already been said on here by others, they won't deliver the miraculous economy that they promise.

 

[The Pretender]

Somewhere there is a article that i read about the TwinAir development.
And one of the key-notes was that the TwinAir engine was designed with in mind to be able to do 200.000 Km's without any problems.

 

[gazz_bee]

Coupled with the worse fuel economy at the likes of 70mph I can only see an advantage in them during the first few years whilst they work perfectly, and around the city where they really suit.

My twinair 500 is more efficient at 70mph than my previous 1.2 panda or 500. It's city driving where I find twinair economy suffers. When I say suffer, my twinair is within 10% of my previous 1.2 economy. More or less compensated by the difference in road tax.

 

[deeyup]

There have certainly been some reported issues on this forum, though I wouldn't say the floodgates have opened, at least not yet anyhow.

The three primary concerns are the multiair system, the turbo and (on Euro6 variants) the DMF. All have been known to fail on relatively young, low mileage cars - the unfortunate owner of the latest DMF failure is looking at a potential £5k bill on a 38 month old car.

Whether the TA engine has the long term durability of the 1.2 FIRE is, as yet, unknown. Personally I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't stop me buying a new TA if I was planning to change it after 3yrs or so. If I were looking for a long term keeper, then I'd be looking elsewhere.

It's not that easy to find the right balance between giving false reassurance and unnecessarily alarming potential buyers.

Agree with all of that. I will not buy another TA.

 

[gar074]

Jury's still out for me, too. I'm noticing some occasional lumpiness/misfiring at part-throttle - I guess it could be the plugs, at 14k miles - and the little beast just doesn't feel that robust. Hope I'm wrong, because I bought it as a keeper.

 

[TheR]

Jury's still out for me, too. I'm noticing some occasional lumpiness/misfiring at part-throttle - I guess it could be the plugs, at 14k miles - and the little beast just doesn't feel that robust. Hope I'm wrong, because I bought it as a keeper.

Don't know if your car is still under warenty but I would have that looked at. Could also be the coils. There used to be some problems in the past but occasionaly hear something about them.

 

[R1NGA]

Don't know if your car is still under warenty but I would have that looked at. Could also be the coils. There used to be some problems in the past but occasionaly hear something about them.

In my experience the slight hesitation lumpiness occurs only during those first 2 minutes after a cold start and then disappears. A colleague at work has a TA Trekking and has exactly the same observation. Provided the proper oil is used (0w30 not 5w40), then all will probably be OK. I noticed a difference after the last service when the dealer used the thinner oil, no question about it.

 

[TheR]

In my experience the slight hesitation lumpiness occurs only during those first 2 minutes after a cold start and then disappears. A colleague at work has a TA Trekking and has exactly the same observation. Provided the proper oil is used (0w30 not 5w40), then all will probably be OK. I noticed a difference after the last service when the dealer used the thinner oil, no question about it.

That could also be the case. I hardly use my car for city driving so I've never noticed what you described but that might not say it's not there. I believe you notice the different oil when cold but as I understand it the "proper" oil used to be 5w40 before the 2014 model year and when it's warm it would hardly make a difference. Also has a lot to do if you live in a warm or a cold climate. The thinner oil only came in to play to meet higher euro norms.

 

[Mercky]

There have certainly been some reported issues on this forum, though I wouldn't say the floodgates have opened, at least not yet anyhow.

The three primary concerns are the multiair system, the turbo and (on Euro6 variants) the DMF. All have been known to fail on relatively young, low mileage cars - the unfortunate owner of the latest DMF failure is looking at a potential £5k bill on a 38 month old car.

Whether the TA engine has the long term durability of the 1.2 FIRE is, as yet, unknown. Personally I wouldn't bet the farm on it, but it wouldn't stop me buying a new TA if I was planning to change it after 3yrs or so. If I were looking for a long term keeper, then I'd be looking elsewhere.

It's not that easy to find the right balance between giving false reassurance and unnecessarily alarming potential buyers.

All true but all modern diesels to the best of my knowledge have a turbo and a DMF so not exactly unique to a TA, a work colleague had to replace the DMF on his 320d Beemer recently, cost €1500 at an Indie so not sure about £5K unless lots of collateral damage caused? Also, plenty of TA's around now with 80k or thereabouts and going by the very few reports on this forum, which would be indicative I reckon, there havent been a worrying quantity of failures - all pre DMF cars in fairness. Correct oil is obviously key and a few early cars probably suffered here. Uniair units are not scary expensive and easy enough to fit apparently. Single points of failure are never good but I dont find myself worrying about the above too much. Time will tell and hopefully I havent jinxed myself!

 

[SB1500]

To be honest, by the time I can afford a new car it'll probably be the new Panda whether it's a face lifted 319 or a complete new approach. It'll also have the base model engine, I'm not too fussed on diesel and can't see the 1.2 sticking around another 4 years! Whatever it may be, 1.2 or 1.0 I'll have to have faith in Fiat to be able to keep it serviced and working flawlessly. Surely that's not a big demand, especially as I'd be choosing the new Panda which will likely be priced higher than VW, Ford, Vauxhalls more 'modern' superminis with a lot more features for the money but they never win over the character of the current Panda! Or am I going mad?!