General egr valve

[adamcot]

Bosch don't make the gasket. What makes you think they do?

You clearly have a very limited understanding of diesel engine technology. Some of the people who have replied to you are Fiat tech trained themselves. If you won't listen and keep doing as you please, then that's your problem. But I wouldn't advocate others doing the same on a public forum.

As from where I stand, you either run the car as it was designed (E.G. with the EGR valve in full working order) or don't run it at all. Can't understand why people think they know better.

 

[Shadeyman]

Bosch, Fiat, John Doe, who cares what its called. It virtually blocks off the EGR when its fitted, thats all that matters.

 

[adamcot]

It doesn't block anything.

It's about pressure change. I had the gasket fitted on my 1.9 for about 12 months. I didn't need to clean or strip the EGR down in that time. But since you are ignoring everyone else's advice....

 

[T14086]

'callibrated partition' it is then

 

[Shadeyman]

Fitted the Restrictor Plate to my daughters car yesterday. Cleaned the usual crap out of the Manifold, EGR and MAP sensor but couldn't be bothered to clean the intercooler(46810017 - HEAT EXCHANGER for you Argo. ). I did however change the position of where the Resrtictor Plate was installed as recomended by the guy at Fiat, between the intercooler and the EGR.

 

[Argonought]

Fitted the Restrictor Plate to my daughters car yesterday. Cleaned the usual crap out of the Manifold, EGR and MAP sensor but couldn't be bothered to clean the intercooler(46810017 - HEAT EXCHANGER for you Argo. ). I did however change the position of where the Resrtictor Plate was installed as recomended by the guy at Fiat, between the intercooler and the EGR.

Putting it between the Heat Exchanger and the EGR will mean the gasket IS acting as a flow restrictor (which I thought I'd already explained) since it will generate minimal turbulence at the stop valve (where the mixing of exhaust gases and air takes place).

Best place IMO is right next to the stop valve.

I thought I'd made that clear in previous posts (keep in mind my JTD hasn't had a single EGR issue in 8 years which tends to indicate it's a good place to put it )

 

[Shadeyman]

The flow is resticted no matter where its put.

Fitted the Restrictor Plate where the guy from Fiat advised me to. He said by placing it the oposite side of the EGR it reduced the amount of crap that was deposited on it and helped stop the EGR sticking. If I had to choose I'd place it between the exhaust and the Heat Exchanger and reduce the crap that was deposited on the whole Exhaust Gas Recirculation system.

Might give that a try one day. :chin:

 

[Argonought]

The flow is resticted no matter where its put

Correct

He said by placing it the oposite side of the EGR it reduced the amount of crap that was deposited on it and helped stop the EGR sticking. If I had to choose I'd place it between the exhaust and the Heat Exchanger and reduce the crap that was deposited on the whole Exhaust Gas Recirculation system.

Was this a DET trained engineer as it sounds like the worst possible advise to me

By increasing gas flow BEFORE it enters the EGR system then it follows a lower pressure area will immediately follow and this will be where a good amount of soot will deposit. In other words the greatest amount of soot is likely to be deposited within the EGR valve itself and to make matters even worse - you wont even receive the advantage the gasket is intended to produce.

By fitting next to the manifold the gasket generates turbulence which is likely to reduce soot accumulations in that very area since the soot (once mixed with air) has now become part of the main induction process (it might still accumulate in low pressure areas but that's the same for any car design)

 

[Shadeyman]

1. The flow rate of exhaust gases is significantly reduced no matter where the Restrictor Plate is fitted, so it stands to reason that less crap is deposited in the whole system.

2. The small holes in the Restrictor Plate creates turbulance that helps keep the soot and other crap airbourne so it can be feed into the engine.

So my question is, now that the amount of crap getting into the system has been reduced where is this turbulance effect be best used?

Fiat say on the inlet side of the EGR valve according to thier bulletin.

A Fiat mechanic says on the heat exchanger side of the EGR valve.

And you say next to the "Stop Valve".(Whats a stop valve?)


Personally I'd just blank it off and forget about it but if the flow is reduced to an absolute minmum by this Restrictor Plate and a suitable position could be found to place it so regular stripping and cleaning of any part of the system is also significantly reduced I could be convinced to remove the blanking plate and go spend another £18 on a Restrictor Plate for my own car.

 

[Davren]

Fiat and Bosch both say put it on the outlet side of the EGR valve, as in the Fiat coloured diagram and Bosch black and white diagram below.

The stop valve (anti run on valve would be a more appropriate name) is item #8 in the third diagram. The butterfly is controlled by the vacuum capsule attached to the spindle and should completely close as soon as the engine is switched off. It's sole function is to block the air inlet to prevent the engine running on after it's been switched off.
.

 

[Argonought]

Personally I'd just blank it off and forget about it but if the flow is reduced to an absolute minmum by this Restrictor Plate and a suitable position could be found to place it so regular stripping and cleaning of any part of the system is also significantly reduced I could be convinced to remove the blanking plate and go spend another £18 on a Restrictor Plate for my own car.

Whilst I agree with you that the gasket will reduce exhaust flow when the EGR valve is fully open, exactly how much it's reduced will depend upon the pressure the turbo and exhaust in general exerts on the system.

I've also told where I'd put it in 4 posts now and clearly explained the theory.

As you can see, Fiat suggest a different location but unfortunately I can't provide an explanation as to why that should be.

 

[Suicide_Jockey]

... and go spend another £18 on a Restrictor Plate for my own car.

Me = Curious Tightarse ..... so me is spending £4 on one of these & will drill 3 x 5mm holes in it :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120683909833

 

[Shadeyman]

(anti run on valve would be a more appropriate name) is item #8 in the third diagram.

Thanks Dave, I wondered what that butterfly valve was for.

Whilst I agree with you that the gasket will reduce exhaust flow when the EGR valve is fully open, exactly how much it's reduced will depend upon the pressure the turbo and exhaust in general exerts on the system.

The amount of presure the turbo and exhaust excerts on the system is the same as it was before the Resrtictor Plate was fitted. How much the flow is reduced depends on the Restrictor Plate. As my original guess of 25mm was wrong here are the new calculations based on the correct port size of 26.5mm


Each hole has an area of - 0.19634954084936 cm2

So all 3 holes have a total area of - 0.58904862254808 cm2

Compare that to the actual area of the EGR port - 5.5154586024586 m2


Thats almost 11 times smaller so its restricts the flow alot. Looking at the diagrams for the 16v Restrictor Plate, I'd say that plate restricts the flow a lot more than the 8v plate does.

I've also told where I'd put it in 4 posts now and clearly explained the theory.

You also think theres only 1 Intercooler on a JTD?
46745841 - HEAT EXCHANGER
46810017 - HEAT EXCHANGER

As you can see, Fiat suggest a different location but unfortunately I can't provide an explanation as to why that should be.

I suggested between the exhaust and the intercooler, you had plenty of suggestions then.

As the plate creates turbulance which helps keep soot and all the other crap airbourne I think where you installed it makes more sense. By putting the plate as close to the manifold as possible you are reducing the low pressure areas where soot and crap can collect. The turbulant(soot filled) air is sucked almost straight away into the engine keeping the Manifold and MAP sensor almost crap free. Your 8 years free from EGR related issues is testament to a good install position.

 

[T14086]

Me = Curious Tightarse ..... so me is spending £4 on one of these & will drill 3 x 5mm holes in it :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120683909833

also need extra metal gasket as you need 2, one each side of callibrated partirion

 

[Shadeyman]

Me = Curious Tightarse ..... so me is spending £4 on one of these & will drill 3 x 5mm holes in it :-
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120683909833

I didn't drill any holes nor did I by 2 extra gaskets to put either side of it.

1 x Restrictor Plate - £18
2 x Gasket - £26

Total - £44

I purchased Bertye's blanking plate for £4 and spread a little gasket sealer either side of it.

 

[Argonought]

The amount of presure the turbo and exhaust excerts on the system is the same as it was before the Resrtictor Plate was fitted. How much the flow is reduced depends on the Restrictor Plate.

Wrong I'm afraid (I did suggest you did some studying on gas flow)

Output from the engine is displacement and therefore fixed.

It's output path is via Turbo and/or EGR (if active)

As you state, the effect of the swirl gasket will indeed attempt to restrict flow through EGR which will in turn increase pressure on the turbo AS WELL AS MAINTAINING INCREASED PRESSURE on the gasket.

It therefore follows that the reduction in surface area of the gasket WILL NOT directly relate proportionately to the reduction in exhaust flow through the EGR (when active) since the resistance to flow through the turbo is unknown (it wont be zero)

In other words; yes, flow through the EGR will be reduced but not by as much as you might assume by calculations of surface area etc. etc.

As the plate creates turbulance which helps keep soot and all the other crap airbourne I think where you installed it makes more sense. By putting the plate as close to the manifold as possible you are reducing the low pressure areas where soot and crap can collect. The turbulant(soot filled) air is sucked almost straight away into the engine keeping the Manifold and MAP sensor almost crap free. Your 8 years free from EGR related issues is testament to a good install position.

It's a lot easier to simply agree then repeat everything I've already explained to you.

Still, I'm glad you've decided to agree on at least one thing

 

[Shadeyman]

It's a lot easier to simply agree then repeat everything I've already explained to you.

We had such a wonderfull rapport, what a terrible loss.

 

[MiniMonster]

"Shadeyman and Argonought in bed smoking a cigarette"

So is there any symptom's of a blocked EGR valve? (For those who want it clean and not blocked off, ofcourse)

 

[Oakley28]

"Shadeyman and Argonought in bed smoking a cigarette"

So is there any symptom's of a blocked EGR valve? (For those who want it clean and not blocked off, ofcourse)

I've had mine blanked off for a week pending fitting of new one and my MPG has gone up???

Is this possible, or just a coincidence, or false reading or what? Current tank is 471 miles range to empty shows 120 miles.

 

[Shadeyman]

So is there any symptom's of a blocked EGR valve? (For those who want it clean and not blocked off, ofcourse)

If the EGR is completely blocked, purposely or due to a build up of crap, the only symptom("bonus" maybe a better word to use) is better MPG.

I've had mine blanked off for a week pending fitting of new one and my MPG has gone up???

Is this possible, or just a coincidence, or false reading or what? Current tank is 471 miles range to empty shows 120 miles.

Whilst an EGR reduces NOx gases, fuel consumption and Particulate Matter(soot) increases.

So your MPG should be better if your EGR is blocked off.​

Edit
I've attached a PDF document from TechTalk to this post that makes interesting reading.​