General egr valve

[Argonought]

It also shouldn't cause the MAP sensor to get blocked up, inlet manifold to get blocked up and the EGR to stick open and loose power but it does once the car has done a few thousand miles. Clean the EGR, inlet manifold and MAP sensor then permanently block the EGR off. No more worries.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/EGR-blanking-blank-plate-VAUXHALL-FIAT-ALFA-SAAB-1-9-/120683909833

Who posted that

If cleaning the EGR only provides a temporary cure then it's time to replace with new or refurbished unit.

It costs money it's true but it's the only proper repair that returns the engine to how is was designed to run.

 

[Shadeyman]

Whether the EGR is new, old or reconditioned it still allows crap from the exhaust into the inlet manifold covering everything in its path in that thick black gunk that causes the problems we are all to familiar with.

A proper repair is what is deemed best, in the case of a car with a few thousand miles on the clock "prevention is better than cure". Block it off = proper repair.

 

[Argonought]

Shadey, I grant you that you wont get so much soot in the inlet manifold but the fact remains the EGR can't possibly work if blocked.

Even if you overlook the advantages of having an active EGR system, and decide you'd rather not have it, the fact of the matter is that the ECU will still 'expect' it to be able to function.

 

[Shadeyman]

Shadey, I grant you that you wont get so much soot in the inlet manifold but the fact remains the EGR can't possibly work if blocked.

Even if you overlook the advantages of having an active EGR system, and decide you'd rather not have it, the fact of the matter is that the ECU will still 'expect' it to be able to function.

Its more than just soot and the whole point of blocking it off is I dont want it to work.
I dont want it to allow more gunk into my now super clean manifold.
I dont want it to fill my MAP sensor with gunk so I have more problems to deal with.
I dont want it to do anything because its not very good at it now my car has a few thousand miles on it.

As far as the ECU is concerned it still is functioning. The EGR opens and closes just like the ECU wants it to, but the blanking plate stops the crap.

 

[Argonought]

As far as the ECU is concerned it still is functioning. The EGR opens and closes just like the ECU wants it to, but the blanking plate stops the crap.

Exactly so; that's why blanking it off like that is effectively really just a bodge since the ECU still attempts to use the EGR.

The critical idea here is that if you really want to the remove the EGR system completely then you'd also need a new ECU which is unlikely to exist (since the EGR system is fundamental to the engine design)

And remember all this is before we even discuss the legality and ethical issues.

But as said many times, it's your decision at the end of the day

 

[Shadeyman]

Exactly so; that's why blanking it off like that is effectively really just a bodge since the ECU still attempts to use the EGR.

The critical idea here is that if you really want to the remove the EGR system completely then you'd also need a new ECU which is unlikely to exist (since the EGR system is fundamental to the engine design)

And remember all this is before we even discuss the legality and ethical issues.

But as said many times, it's your decision at the end of the day

Effectively really just a bodge...?
Atempt to use it...?
Critical...?
Legality and ethical issues...?



EGR's dont work very well, if at all on cars with a few thousand miles on the clock, a fact that most of us have encountered at some point.

Nobody wants to keep cleaning their Manifold because its full of crap from the exhaust.
Nobody wants to loose power because the MAP sensor is full of crap from the exhaust.
Or are they fundamental to the engine design?

Fitting a well made blanking plate prevents these problems and more. In my case it has given better throttle response.
It doesn't interfere with the mechanical operation of the EGR so the ECU is quite happy, no need for the total removal of the EGR or a new ECU.

Your happy to continually "strip and clean" the parts the EGR effects, most of us aren't, and thats your decision at the end of the day

 

[adamcot]

My problem with blanking it off would be the fact that it is there for a reason. Fiat and/or any other car manufacturers would not fit these devices unless they were needed. Why would they go through the cost of installing and developing the device if it really isn't needed? My GPS Mjet ran fine for 55,000 miles before the EGR valve caused any issues. A replacement costs less than £100. I would rather just fit the replacement unit - it really doesn't cost that much in the scheme of things.

 

[Peat]

My problem with blanking it off would be the fact that it is there for a reason. <snip>]

And that reason is called the European Commission!

The same body of jobsworth's that tell fishermen to throw back half their catch (because it may be over quota) a good deal of which will die! That's really good thinking.

I'm with Shadey and common sense on this.

 

[Argonought]

EGR's dont work very well, if at all on cars with a few thousand miles on the clock, a fact that most of us have encountered at some point.

That fact appears only your fixated opinion from what I've read (many times now)

Nobody wants to keep cleaning their Manifold because its full of crap from the exhaust.

I don't

Nobody wants to loose power because the MAP sensor is full of crap from the exhaust.

I don't

Fitting a well made blanking plate prevents these problems and more. In my case it has given better throttle response.
It doesn't interfere with the mechanical operation of the EGR so the ECU is quite happy, no need for the total removal of the EGR or a new ECU.

This subject has been done to death but you continual to delude yourself regardless

Your happy to continually "strip and clean" the parts the EGR effects, most of us aren't, and thats your decision at the end of the day

I don't

My problem with blanking it off would be the fact that it is there for a reason. Fiat and/or any other car manufacturers would not fit these devices unless they were needed. Why would they go through the cost of installing and developing the device if it really isn't needed? My GPS Mjet ran fine for 55,000 miles before the EGR valve caused any issues. A replacement costs less than £100. I would rather just fit the replacement unit - it really doesn't cost that much in the scheme of things.

Exactly so Adam but some people would rather stick their head in the sand.

Shadey probably put a lot of effort into cleaning his inlet manifold and sounds to me like he's still smarting from it i.e. he never wants to do it again

That doesn't change the hard fact that it's better to have a functioning EGR system though.

 

[Argonought]

And that reason is called the European Commission!



I'm with Shadey and common sense on this.

I'm not quite sure how common sense relates to emission standards which are basically a worldwide concern (should be anyway )

In California for example, you'd get pulled over for driving a car that's not performing within eco standards (there's an external visible indicator to warn enforcement agencies).

I dread to think of the implications of deliberately overriding such systems

 

[lmrn1]

Mine is blanked off, its due MOT next month so will see if it passs on emmisions. If it does then hopefully no more fish will die if it doesn't then I will buy a new one.

 

[Argonought]

Mine is blanked off, its due MOT next month so will see if it passs on emmisions. If it does then hopefully no more fish will die if it doesn't then I will buy a new one.

lol I think you'll find it will pass as I don't think the UK MoT checks for such things.

EGR isn't active at idle, with a cold engine or under power so isn't likely to make any change to emissions test.

 

[Shadeyman]

My GPS Mjet ran fine for 55,000 miles before the EGR valve caused any issues. A replacement costs less than £100. I would rather just fit the replacement unit - it really doesn't cost that much in the scheme of things.

My point exactly Adam, they cause problems that can be prevented by blocking them off.

fixated opinion

delude yourself regardless

stick their head in the sand

"Pot calling the kettle black" springs instantly to mind ..

EGR isn't active at idle

You might want to plug FES into your car and check that ...

 

[adamcot]

And that reason is called the European Commission!

The same body of jobsworth's that tell fishermen to throw back half their catch (because it may be over quota) a good deal of which will die! That's really good thinking.

I'm with Shadey and common sense on this.

But that is the law, so to speak. I don't necessarily agree with every rule/regulation in the world, but the manufactures still have to abide by them.

I'm not a "tree hugger", I believe global warming is a myth But these devices are there for other reasons.

I don't think it's common sense to remove a part of a car that was designed to be there if I'm honest. Fiat have enough technical knowledge to have been aware of the possible issue when they designed the engine, so don't you think it's left to them to decide how parts are fitted? Unless you know better, then maybe you should be getting a job there to show them how to do it?

Edit: Just found this

http://autorepair.about.com/od/glossary/gr/def_egr-valve.htm

Not saying it is the most amazing source in the world, but if you blank the EGR off, are you not technically raising the intake temperature and thereby making the engine run hotter? What's the long term effects?

 

[Shadeyman]

Recirculating exhaust into the intake tract of a medium- or heavy-duty diesel engine can reduce power output, increase fuel consumption, and add abrasive contaminants and increase engine oil acidity, which in turn can reduce engine longevity.
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhaust_gas_recirculation"]Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Question_book-new.svg" class="image"><img alt="Question book-new.svg" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@en/thumb/9/99/Question_book-new.svg/50px-Question_book-new.svg.png[/ame]

EGR is a technique for reducing NOx gases especially in Diesel engines. Portions of oxygen
meagre exhaust gases are cooled and recirculated into the engine and mixed with oxygen rich
intake air (see figure 3). Due to the fewer amount of oxygen molecules in the combustion air
the peak combustion temperature and the amount of excess oxygen are reduced which result​

in less NOx formation.

However, there is a dilemma when applying EGR. The combustion at lower temperatures is a
less efficient combustion process. Whilst NOx gases are reduced the amount of Particulate
Matter remaining in the exhaust gas stream increases. Additionally, fuel consumption​

intensifies.
See attached PDF document.


The EC has some crap ideas, fitting an EGR to a car is one of them.

 

[adamcot]

I wouldn't class the 1.9 unit as either medium or heavy duty. Medium starts at around 3.5 litres to about 10 litres. Heavy duty is this sort of stuff:

 

[Shadeyman]

The article relates to vehicles, cars mainly, Medium/heavy duty relates to the type of work the engine does not the size of it.

Example a diesel taxi engine would be a heavy duty type.

 

[adamcot]

No, I think you misunderstand. "Heavy duty" diesel engine doesn't refer to the miles or the amount of effort the engine has to make. That is called "high mileage". Heavy duty to medium duty is about the displacement and HP/torque output. I worked for a diesel engine manufacturer for 14 months, so I have had exposure to this.

 

[Shadeyman]

No, I think you misunderstand. "Heavy duty" diesel engine doesn't refer to the miles or the amount of effort the engine has to make. That is called "high mileage". Heavy duty to medium duty is about the displacement and HP/torque output. I worked for a diesel engine manufacturer for 14 months, so I have had exposure to this.

The article relates to vehicles and a 2.0L turbo diesel car engine falls nicely into the medium duty catagory. Heavy duty would be taxis, busses and HGV.

 

[Argonought]

Lets make it really really simple shall we:

Take a JTD engine based and designed upon laid down engineering plans (eLearn if you like).

If the owner blocks the EGR valve such that it no longer functions then it cannot be said to have been properly repaired.

The elementary axiom here is: that is the case because you have not returned the engine to it's original specification which we define as an engine which is properly repaired


If anyone wants to modify their engine then that's up to them but lets do away with all this nonsense that just because a fancy gasket has been fitted then that makes it "a proper repair"