Technical Ducato P0401 P0402 P0236 P0238 and limp mode its 2017 Euro 6, EGR changed, What do I check next

[MarcoWuerttemberger]

@MarcoWuerttemberger I just spent hours to find guys with the same problem.
Our Fiat Ducato 180 is in Garage since Sept. 2024. They didn’t found the problem yet
They have already replaced the EGR, the MAP sensor and the air filter.

May can I ask which garage you went to or if we could perhaps talk on the phone? I'm really desperate, the garage has been telling us to sell it for months.
We’re from the south of Germany (Freiburg), near Switzerland and France. I would drive anywhere for our Fiat. We rebuilt it for 1 1/2 years for our needs.
It would be really great if you can may help us out.
Thank you in advance und Grüße aus Freiburg

du hast übrigens ne PM

 

[theoneandonly]

Greetings learned peoples,
I have been following along and using your methods to test my 2016 Euro6 burstner (B1) which has a clear exhaust and no faults against my friend's identical vehicle (B2) bought at the same time in UK and exported to NZ after travelling in Europe for a few months.
B2 has a reproducible fault (P0401 and P0238) on warmup about 3 km down the road which if cleared once warm, the vehicle runs well with good acceleration and good MPG but a sooty exhaust. So far B2 has has the MAP sensor replaced like for like with the 028 part and is about to make a decision on a next expensive step.
My question is why does the fault occur only on warmup and what should I look for in the OBD readings to show what triggers the fault?
One thought I had was that when cold the LPEGR cooler blocks up quickly with wet soot but as it warms more gases get through to allow the engine to run without fault.
Cheers Bevin

I simple terms the Twin egr lpegr cooler syndrome is covered in 2 guides. there is also one on how the twin egr system works.

Twin EGR Problem

This does not refer to earlier single EGR systems or to later AdBlu SCR engines. Note this is a guide and not definative. It is up to you to make decissions. It is the result of my investigations of data from many contributors and discussion with...

www.fiatforum.com

The second guide (refered to in above) details why the p0401 is thrown when its nothing to do with the hpegr valve

 

[theoneandonly]

I am trying to answer a few questions about which models are more suseptible to the blocked cooler syndrome. I have too many blanks to be statisticaly happy about certain statements so this question is out to all those that have had a blocked cooler not just those in the following list. pleASE REPLY TO THIS THREAD OR PM me, either will do.

@aschoots ,@Dave Ducato , @CheeseMonster , @jansla , @Niko94 , @Poachersmoon, @RR58, @Serrow225 , @theGman , @athoirs , @Cariou , @chumleywarner ,@Mbackiel , @Mike D Halliday , @Paravan , @phaphanou , @rolopolo , @Shugzter ,@Sillystu84 , @steve clark , @steve298 , @tango Quebec

comfortmatic / Manual Software version at start /at end. Engine 130,150,180 date/ year preferably from factory (c of c) or convertor or reg / Country
example
c / m v24 (or?) / v32 130 2016 coc / GB D NZ etc
Mine

 

[deejays]

I am trying to answer a few questions about which models are more suseptible to the blocked cooler syndrome. I have too many blanks to be statisticaly happy about certain statements so this question is out to all those that have had a blocked cooler not just those in the following list. pleASE REPLY TO THIS THREAD OR PM me, either will do.

@aschoots ,@Dave Ducato , @CheeseMonster , @jansla , @Niko94 , @Poachersmoon, @RR58, @Serrow225 , @theGman , @athoirs , @Cariou , @chumleywarner ,@Mbackiel , @Mike D Halliday , @Paravan , @phaphanou , @rolopolo , @Shugzter ,@Sillystu84 , @steve clark , @steve298 , @tango Quebec

comfortmatic / Manual Software version at start /at end. Engine 130,150,180 date/ year preferably from factory (c of c) or convertor or reg / Country
example
c / m v24 (or?) / v32 130 2016 coc / GB D NZ etc
Mine

@theoneandonly
A good idea to collate more user data. Can I offer my two bobs worth? I know of another three dual EGR Ducatos in Australia. One is identical to mine (also similar manufacture date) and from the owner’s memory, has had slight traces of soot in the exhaust for most of its life (unfortunately indicating a likely cracked DPF) – but not yet displaying any issues and runs very well. It has done around 70,000km. Another vehicle – which originally was a rental vehicle before private purchase, rolled out of the factory in early 2017. It has done around 100,000km, has a very clean exhaust and runs very well. It is a 180 motor. It is still running the original factory SW V23. The other vehicle, also a 180 motor – not sure of the manufacture date has also no issues and a clean exhaust. The common thing with two of the above and mine, with no issues and clean exhaust is they are vehicles that are only used for holidays and are not what you would call a daily driver. As such they are rarely exposed to short duration trips and continuous start/stop traffic in heavy built-up areas. The one vehicle with slight sooty exhaust is used for every day living as well as holidays. All are Comfortmatics. The one nagging thing is the one that has a sooty exhaust may have had a FIAT PRO forced regen carried out!

Do you think it may shed some more light on the issue if we could collect the following data from all owners and importantly including those with no issues if happy to do so – it may provide more insight and a possible contributor to the issue?

The current data below is from my vehicle – Comfortmatic, V24 from factory then V32 mid-2024, 150, Factory date Nov 2017, Adria build. It has no issues.

 

[seantut]

Morning All, a bit of an update on my situation. I've sucessfully changed the EGR cooler (pig of a job to do) which made the van run miles better with no issues for now! Yesterday got the software updated to Version 32 (van is manual) it was updated at a friends garage in Rainham Essex using Hella remote diagnostics, not at a Fiat pro! Cost me £92. MPG seemed to improve from 27MPG to 33MPG motorway driving. Didn't get chance to capture any data yet, i will share when i have.
Once i stopped i did check parameters and i noticed that the average distance between last DPF regens is 220KM but current distance from last regen is 321km with 96% clogging so it's possible changing the cooler and the software update has made a difference to how the DPF clogs up?

 

[Fredastaire]

I can echo the comments on improved performance, mpg improvement, I also think regens longer but don't have data. My cooler was changed in November for the second time.
.
To look at the future, we still need a way around the LP blocked cooler problem. I've been (and still are) working on unrelated projects which are taking all my time. I'm still wanting to look at an adapter fitted to the elbow infeed of the LP EGR unit with an air feed pipe from a secondary air filter, then blank off the bottom flexipipe feed from the silencer.
.
I do wish I could motivate someone to also think outside the box to find a long term solution.

 

[Ratfink]

Hi, a friend and I both have Ducatos with the twin EGR engine, his is a works van and mine a motorhome. As per theoneandonly post yesterday the specs are as follows:-

Friends - m v22 130 2016 reg (66 plate) / GB. This van has done about 135000 miles, has a sooty exhaust and sometimes goes into limp mode. P2200-15, P0401-61, P0238, P0236-7A & P0402-61. All are intermittent. HP EGR was replaced 2 years ago.

Mine - m v24 130 2018 coc / GB. Only has 20000 miles and no faults with clean exhaust.

I have created the templates on MES as per theoneandonly guide and plan on driving the same route in both to record on MES, I assume I need template 4 for both, should I also record data any other templates? Also I assume only start recording when engine is up to temperature.

I want to update my software to V32 this year as it is due a service anyway, probably worth my mate doing that as well.

Someone please let me know what they think.

 

[theoneandonly]

Morning All, a bit of an update on my situation. I've sucessfully changed the EGR cooler (pig of a job to do) which made the van run miles better with no issues for now! Yesterday got the software updated to Version 32 (van is manual) it was updated at a friends garage in Rainham Essex using Hella remote diagnostics, not at a Fiat pro! Cost me £92. MPG seemed to improve from 27MPG to 33MPG motorway driving. Didn't get chance to capture any data yet, i will share when i have.
Once i stopped i did check parameters and i noticed that the average distance between last DPF regens is 220KM but current distance from last regen is 321km with 96% clogging so it's possible changing the cooler and the software update has made a difference to how the DPF clogs up?

Thanks for the data, i will look at data when posted.

Hi, a friend and I both have Ducatos with the twin EGR engine, his is a works van and mine a motorhome. As per theoneandonly post yesterday the specs are as follows:-

Friends - m v22 130 2016 reg (66 plate) / GB. This van has done about 135000 miles, has a sooty exhaust and sometimes goes into limp mode. P2200-15, P0401-61, P0238, P0236-7A & P0402-61. All are intermittent. HP EGR was replaced 2 years ago.

Mine - m v24 130 2018 coc / GB. Only has 20000 miles and no faults with clean exhaust.

I have created the templates on MES as per theoneandonly guide and plan on driving the same route in both to record on MES, I assume I need template 4 for both, should I also record data any other templates? Also I assume only start recording when engine is up to temperature.

I want to update my software to V32 this year as it is due a service anyway, probably worth my mate doing that as well.

Someone please let me know what they think.

Again thanks for the data. I use Template4 for almost all runs (and still miss regens) Captain paranioa has nothing on on me .
I have created a number of other templates mainly for comparisson purposes when something goes wrong i allready have good data to compare with. There is aLSO ONE FOR slow moving data that doesnt need a running engine.
Also I assume only start recording when engine is up to temperature.
No I like to capture how an engine also gets upto temp but a 10 min run only starts from when upto temp.
My winter keep the van moving run (about every month) consists of a T4 (template4) (or another template if wanted) for about 10mins to a roundabout just before M1 jcn16 stop at layby and save data and start T4 them on slip road (if traffic permits) a full throttle plant to floor in 2nd to 4500rpm then foot off ( a specific test known as full throttle pull) then as normal get to 60mph cruise control to jcn 18 off and stop save data and select template ( if other than t4 required for a specific reason). the rejoin Mway south to jcn 16 (another full throttle pull this one uphill). Off at 16 then save data and back home. This journey gets the van working fluids bearings moving and valuable data.

V24 I would love to see data on that software especialy a regen capture. As much as I would like to fill in some blanks on early software i suggest eventualy you work towards getting 32 installed even if its for the percieved increase in mph )some collected data (on a simular run to above before and after )could be usefull.
edit V22 even more interesting to see results and a regen capture

@theoneandonly
A good idea to collate more user data. Can I offer my two bobs worth? I know of another three dual EGR Ducatos in Australia.

Do you think it may shed some more light on the issue if we could collect the following data from all owners and importantly including those with no issues if happy to do so – it may provide more insight and a possible contributor to the issue?

The current data below is from my vehicle – Comfortmatic, V24 from factory then V32 mid-2024, 150, Factory date Nov 2017, Adria build. It has no issues.

Again speaking from the same hymn sheet. Getting data from good engines is more difficult and will be non representative of the population so makes statistical messing about pointless. Getting raw data would improve my golden sample base info) I would love to know what % suffer this problem and ratio of commercial to motorhome
I did a questionaire on a specific Motorhome forum concerning airbag ecu failures i was slated because the population was skewed with only failures being reported and by concerned/ informed owners. They didnt understand the data i was after (that it needed concerned/ informed owners) ie was there a change in failure rate with time (suspected manufacturing/ manufacturing change) and the effectivenes of "repairs" from 2 organisations. I was not concerned about the number of non failures the number of failures was horrific.

 

[Piotr129]

I'm still wanting to look at an adapter fitted to the elbow infeed of the LP EGR unit with an air feed pipe from a secondary air filter, then blank off the bottom flexipipe feed from the silencer.

It's a very interesting idea and it might work.
You can also install a different body with an air filter.

 

[theoneandonly]

@chumleywarner did you get a resolution or is problem still evident?