Another Dealer Quits

[PuntoHowTo]

So top and bottom would seem to be...

If your Fiat dealer isn't very good or is on a small site, they will likely be closing.

and about 25 axed for under performing and an unknown number who's sites don't fit what is required, so maybe 2/5ths of dealerships could close?

It also suggest we could see some old names coming back. Punto has to be the most obvious of these given how well it sold for years. Panda, 500, Tipo are all already in the stable so other than stilo, marea bravo/brava and numbered models, there are not really a lot of other options, we have the 600 for there newest SUV, non of the other names historically lend their name to an SUV ( I can't see fiat launching any larger saloon type cars going forward) so Punto has to be the most logical choice??

Will wait to see if I'm wrong.

 

[porta]

Seems to me that, having visited fiat dealerships, they’re more interested in selling you a car then forgetting about you.
I don’t necessarily mean servicing and parts just ‘give us your money’ then ‘bye bye’

 

[StevenRB45]

Who knows what the future will bring other than the people managing it?

Given the 80s inspiration on the current Astra, there could be a straight edged Tipo on the way to replace the current one. The original Tipo styling would fit quite nicely on the Astra silhouette but that's just me making things up..

 

[porta]

Who knows what the future will bring other than the people managing it?

Given the 80s inspiration on the current Astra, there could be a straight edged Tipo on the way to replace to the current one. The original Tipo styling would fit quite nicely on the Astra silhouette but that's just me making things up..

Given the standard of badge engineering, and Fiats one track mind on wringing every last drop of the 500’s blood…I wouldn’t be surprised if they don’t just engineer a small, medium and large like some automotive Russian doll

 

[StevenRB45]

In general the brands seem to get allowed a fair amount of creative freedom.

You can be reductive and say Ah well you've got a C3 it's just an old 208 in a different hat. To a very real extent that is true, you can interchange the engine and gearbox certainly...as well with many other cars in the range.

But you get in the car and drive it and well every major control you touch regularly is unique between the cars, steering wheel, door handles, instruments, gear knob, seats. Most things you see, eg touchscreen graphics and dials are unique as well.

Things like window switches aren't...also stalks although pug gets chrome trim because it's fancy. But at the same time it's not something you will stare at for hours on end or touch for any more than a few seconds a week.

Then the main elephant in the room is they look and drive nothing like each other. The only common point of reference is the power train and possibly the brake pedal everything else is set up differently.

Now I will say PSA cars have always had a "feel" to the controls I dislike, odd pedal actions, gear linkages and very little mechanical feel..but we're heading into the electric era and that's really really no longer a thing 99% of customers will give a crap about.

 

[Marcus Daly]

So top and bottom would seem to be... If your Fiat dealer isn't very good or is on a small site, they will likely be closing.

To be fair, the one you and I have been talking about was shocking and deserved to walk the plank.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Who knows what the future will bring other than the people managing it?

Given the 80s inspiration on the current Astra, there could be a straight edged Tipo on the way to replace the current one. The original Tipo styling would fit quite nicely on the Astra silhouette but that's just me making things up..

While people in their 40s+ might remember the Tipo, I think as a company fiat has always had a focus on making small fun cars with a target demographic of younger people. More people are likely to recognize the Punto name in my opinion Punto carries a slightly more trendy ring to it, We already have a current "Tipo" which has not been very successful in western europe and I can see them wanting to make another trendy Punto hatchback again, something the size of a golf or Focus, while a new panda takes up a role as a smaller car like the Polo or 208 (not that those cars are small)

I think long gone are the days of truly small cars. I'll be interested to see what comes of the Panda 4x4 as its relatively in demand and on its own in that segment so it would be silly not to replace it, but at the same time how many of these small car platforms can support a 4wd system?

 

[StevenRB45]

I suppose it's whether you prioritise bringing back a car that is dead and all previous customers likely moved on, or you update one you're already selling. There is also the thing...they've already got the 208 hitting big numbers and the Corsa..and a new C3 on the way, do they need a Punto right now? Probably not...but there are other Markets where the sell the "nuevo Uno" and Palio which are Punto sized it may be a case that the business case is made elsewhere in the world and it comes here by default.

The C5x only exists here because China likes that sort of car, otherwise there would be no case for it at all. But they still went to the effort of bringing it here because they could.

Second point, they literally have no mechanical AWD systems I'd so I'd imagine if they go beyond grip control stuff and knobbly tyres then you'd be looking at electrically powered back axles.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I think and I have no evidence of this so it's only a theory or what I would so.

The Tipo was an old name, not one which was lauded for being a brilliant car and was notoriously unreliable in the 80s. it didn't really carry any nostalgia factor.

The Punto especially the Mk1 and 2 holds a special place for a lot of people and the later mk2b was still in production right up to 2012 so there are a huge number of previous customers you could tap into. Citroen make some small fun cars as do Peugeot, but Fiat customers aren't necessarily French car buyers and while they may have something else now, they could be brought back to the fiat fold with something small fun and "italian" these are the people who would have bought a punto as an upgrade to the 500 when they outgrew the 500, instead went and bought a run of the mill golf or focus The 90's is back in vogue at the moment so maybe some 90's style italian cars could be the revamp fiat needs ?

 

[StevenRB45]

Indeed we're just guessing very much as very little has been confirmed.

It'll probably depend on where in the group Fiat gets to sit.

They aren't much for in group competition each manufacturer has it's own niche.

The way I tend to think about it is, picture a VW Polo back when they had a full range, the GTI is competing with the both the Audi A1 and the Seat Leon Cupra and Skoda Fabia VRS.

PSA don't seem to do that, DS occupies the Audi position if you want a plush car you've got to buy that. If you want a sporty car you've got to the buy the Peugeot..if you want a wheeled waterbed in odd colours then Citroën is over there. If you like beige and somewhere in the middle...have a Corsa.

So what will Fiats Pigeon hole end up being? As they don't really like cars within the group built to take on a similar market.

 

[porta]

“So what will Fiats Pigeon hole end up being? As they don't really like cars within the group built to take on a similar market”
Given the briefing by Fiat last month, the only position left is the ‘value brand’ ie, as reported, going after the Dacia market

 

[Marcus Daly]

So after years of FCA lumping everything into the same space they want separate spaces for each brand. This would explain my local one going Lexus it had maybe a 6 car showroom and a forecourt on a corner plot for all brands.

FYI, there was an additional factor at play with that site/dealer. Their previous Lexus site shared showroom space with Aston Martin which Lexus won't allow. So an alternative site had to be found to separate the two if they were to retain Lexus. I suspect the FCA site was in their sights for this already.

 

[StevenRB45]

“So what will Fiats Pigeon hole end up being? As they don't really like cars within the group built to take on a similar market”
Given the briefing by Fiat last month, the only position left is the ‘value brand’ ie, as reported, going after the Dacia market

I don't think so personally, the 600 (it's a basically a Jeep Renegade) and 500e aren't very value brand, and neither is Abarth.

Unless they are gonna have Number cars as more premium option and named ones in the value arena..perhaps.

At the moment Value brand has them competing with Citroën but given that brand is very much in one direction you could go sportier and less SUV light at a similar price point without the Peugeot interior stuff (tiny wheel etc.) and have a bit of a niche there.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Fiat have had a chip on their shoulder for a very long time maybe about 15+ years which is that they see themselves like Mini.

Mini sells cars on a lifestyle and "image" there reputation for reliability is largely not discussed, neither is the cost or practicality, because people who buy them don't think or talk about these things.

Fiat would love to have a range of brightly coloured funky looking cars driven by young people, and while there hopes of doing this in the early 2010s didn't work out, I would not put it passed them to try and pursue this route now.

The 500e and the 600 are both going to be relatively expensive cars, but they've said they want more colourful cars, they did a big launch with the 600 in an insta-trendy location with bright colours. They are clearly going after that part of the market. I could see them doing a facelift on the 500e What Fiat are missing at the moment is a mini 5 door type car, the mini 5 door sells very well so this would be a chunk of the market fiat will likely want to go after.

Lets face it, fiat is unlikely to compete with the likes of VW, Ford, Vauxhall and Peugeot who churn out hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of middle of the road middle of the range "average" workhorse type cars every day. They need to use there "italian flare" to do something a bit different and get the area of the market that doesn't want those 'boring' cars.

 

[StevenRB45]

The Topolino suggests they'll sit above Citroën as well.

It has various things on it that will cost more than the Ami, eg front and rear are not a mirror image.

May be going forward Citroën is at the bottom, Fiat is slightly above and a bit more "trendy" than Citroën given how absolutely utilitarian concepts like the Oli are.

Panda will probably be a less hair shirt new C3 and go up a class from the current one providing a car below Tipo size.

When the Tipo dies there's a gap there for something a bit sportier than the waterbed C4 but less expensive than the 308 and more interesting than an Astra.

 

[porta]

I don't think so personally, the 600 (it's a basically a Jeep Renegade) and 500e aren't very value brand, and neither is Abarth.

Unless they are gonna have Number cars as more premium option and named ones in the value arena..perhaps.

At the moment Value brand has them competing with Citroën but given that brand is very much in one direction you could go sportier and less SUV light at a similar price point without the Peugeot interior stuff (tiny wheel etc.) and have a bit of a niche there.

The Renegade is the 500x, Avenger is 600
I’m only going on the Fiat Press Conference stating that Fiat will be after Dacia. I didn’t mean the whole of the old FCA group cars, but certainly that was said of Fiats ‘small cars’

 

[porta]

The Topolino suggests they'll sit above Citroën as well.

It has various things on it that will cost more than the Ami, eg front and rear are not a mirror image.

May be going forward Citroën is at the bottom, Fiat is slightly above and a bit more "trendy" than Citroën given how absolutely utilitarian concepts like the Oli are.

Panda will probably be a less hair shirt new C3 and go up a class from the current one providing a car below Tipo size.

When the Tipo dies there's a gap there for something a bit sportier than the waterbed C4 but less expensive than the 308 and more interesting than an Astra.

I’d like to see Fiats as they were, offering budget but innovative small cars, coupe and spyders versions and a decent family/rally car…but that’s just me

 

[SB1500]

Been on all the national news media, TV, print, online…this g’ment has even lost the support of the NFU

The worlds gone crazy, the trick is to just do the best you can…problem is there’s always that one barsteward that’ll stick a spanner in the works

This is interesting...

Stellantis standards blamed for closure of Fiat, Alfa, Jeep car dealership

A combined Fiat, Alfa Romeo, Jeep and Abarth car dealership near Solihull is set to close next week because it cannot accommodate the new requirements of car manufacturer group Stellantis.

www.am-online.com

It would appear standards are separate areas for each brand but on the same site.

This dealer cannot comply so is losing the franchise.

Perhaps "Stellantis and You" is ******** then..or maybe it's just a small site.

I don't think so personally, the 600 (it's a basically a Jeep Renegade) and 500e aren't very value brand, and neither is Abarth.

Unless they are gonna have Number cars as more premium option and named ones in the value arena..perhaps.

At the moment Value brand has them competing with Citroën but given that brand is very much in one direction you could go sportier and less SUV light at a similar price point without the Peugeot interior stuff (tiny wheel etc.) and have a bit of a niche there.

Within Fiat they had their own hierarchy of brands, Fiat = standard. Alfa Romeo = premium / sporty. Maserati = Luxury. Jeep = Iconic / SUV. Chrysler = Legacy / US / "Premium".

PSA doesn't have an Alfa Romeo or a Maserati.

DS is an attempt to be an Audi brand. They lack the engineering prowess and innovation of getting close to Mercedes / BMW. They aren't prepared to specialise and go as high end with their love of platform sharing, at best, they'll penetrate into some lower end Audi sales. I like the DS brand, I'm not slating it.

But the DS brand - and all the money PSA put into it (stunning dealerships, incredibly DS4 and DS9) and the dream of having a French version of Audi - I can't see the PSA side of Stellantis wanting to let anything on the FCA side get in the way of that. The French / culture is too proud. The interesting thing will be, that the Italians and their love for design are also proud and won't like being put second to the French / PSA side...

In fairness, maybe DS can learn something from Maserati on the Luxury front, and something from Alfa on the sportiness front. Most of the PSA engines / drive trains are more oriented toward everyday cars and buyers which keeps them successful in the showrooms but away from stealing anyone from the German brands. Maybe that can change now as Stellantis - if they play their cards right - can compete with VAG in the platform sharing game. Which I hate, but at the end of the day, it sells.

 

[StevenRB45]

I’d like to see Fiats as they were, offering budget but innovative small cars, coupe and spyders versions and a decent family/rally car…but that’s just me

Keep getting Avenger/renegade mixed on the basis the look basically the same and are in the same class and about the same size.

It would be nice for them to do as they please with an unlimited and to hell with the consequences...but realistically they are part of a massive company with a product plan and will be using a shared toy box to make things.

 

[SB1500]

I’d like to see Fiats as they were, offering budget but innovative small cars, coupe and spyders versions and a decent family/rally car…but that’s just me

I'd love it if Fiat stuck to one unique platform for a 500, 500C, Abarth, Panda, small Alfa 'premium city car' and then, others in the other brands used it for the likes of a C1, 108/109 but Fiat puts the leg work into that. Instead of just having a Fiat answer to every PSA size category :-/ With the 600, looks like we're getting the latter