Fiat 500e with an engine?! Yes please.

[SB1500]

I came across this article earlier:

Electric Fiat 500 could be given petrol engine | Autocar

Current petrol 500 could be replaced by a converted 500 EV as new EU cybersecurity rules come into force

www.autocar.co.uk

They're going to put a real engine in the latest Fiat 500e. If it brings the cost down and future-proofs it into more than a 7 year battery lifespan, I don't see how it could be a bad thing.

Would you buy one with a more reasonable price tag?

 

[dantay999]

That article isn’t accurate as the new 500e is built on a brand new production line that cost 700 million euros and a further 50 million euros for the paint shop. The 500e runs on a complete ground-up new platform that has nothing in common with any other Fiat or Stellantis group products. I think it would be a massive mistake to take the car backwards by putting a combustion engine in it, the new Panda can fulfill that remit. On the question of cost I just purchased a pre-reg 500e Action model on a 73 plate with 3 miles on the clock for £12995…..less than half list so if you look you don’t need a combustion version for affordable motoring……range is another thing but this is a second car.

 

[varesecrazy]

Last reports I read the 500e production has been on a 3 day week for months, as sales have slowed dramatically

It's up there with Tesla as purpose-built Electric cars

ALL car manufacturers are see quiet drops in sales, interesting times

 

[dantay999]

Last reports I read the 500e production has been on a 3 day week for months, as sales have slowed dramatically

It's up there with Tesla as purpose-built Electric cars

ALL car manufacturers are see quiet drops in sales, interesting times

Yep, the bottom has completely dropped out of lower range ev’s the 500e Action, Honda e, Mazda MX-30 etc but it’s a lot of good quality car for the same price as the 2007 (origin) Tychy built combustion classic so it works for me. For people that can use them as a second car these are perfect at the current prices.

Battery tech needs to massively improve performance and cost wise before it’s ready for prime time with no reservations.

 

[varesecrazy]

At £12k I could look harder,
but the range is too tight for me

 

[dantay999]

Yeah it’s really 90 stress free miles, but again, as a second car that’s fine. The build quality is light years ahead of my 22 plate hybrid 500 that cost £14500! It drives so much better……quieter…..safer etc etc etc. It’s a really nice piece of product design and engineering. There is nooooo way I’d ever have paid 27k for it!

 

[SB1500]

Yeah it’s really 90 stress free miles, but again, as a second car that’s fine. The build quality is light years ahead of my 22 plate hybrid 500 that cost £14500! It drives so much better……quieter…..safer etc etc etc. It’s a really nice piece of product design and engineering. There is nooooo way I’d ever have paid 27k for it!

I wish Fiat had been able to economically stay independent and have already made this into a basic replacement Panda… a Tipo… a 500X maybe even a 500L competing with the Peugeot / Vauxhall people carriers. That would be an alternative timeline though at this stage..

The current 500 and Panda should still be available like they are but at a much lower price reflecting the older (but still appealing to the buyer) equipment and platforms. They’ve been building them long enough that I’d be surprised if they couldn’t be getting the parts all mass produced for so little now. The R&D contribution on those models must be well, well paid off and more now!

The strength of the current older models is nothing short of amazing. Still strong sales / segment leading. Not many cars would survive this long with such little revision. Not many cars can survive that 0 star NCAP smear campaign 6 years on with barely any revisions. Long live the Panda and 500!

Although I did get a newsletter the other day from Fiat saying to get a Fiat 500 Hybrid now in its last year. So they must have the plans set in stone to shutdown the assembly line soon

 

[dantay999]

The 500 (2007 release) based on the Panda platform was due to end production in Poland last year but they stretched it to this year for rhd models as the UK doesn’t have the same platform security regs as the EU at the moment.

The 500 (2007 release) based on the Panda platform is starting or has started production in Algeria for markets in that region where emission control and crash regs are less stringent so it’s going to be made and sold for many years to come.

 

[SB1500]

More news. Essentially Fiat are following the industry in backtracking from an over-enthusiastic EV adoption strategy.



My two cents: I don't think the full EV thing is really going to happen. The technology and infrastructure, whilst not perfect, is more than 'good enough' for most people now. And still, no significant interest - or really, we wouldn't be seeing hesitancy from the makers who announced radical EV led plans going back like this. The technology is allegedly getting cheaper, but let's face it, that isn't really reflected on any of the first, now second generations of current EVs for sale. Not helped by global inflation, political instability, wars etc. Who knows what could be ahead if we get a new government in the UK, how the US election goes and what the mad-men in Russia / China decide to do in the coming years. I can't see stability bringing costs down much.

The 500e with an engine and hopefully a much lower cost (although we probably won't get that in the UK) will hopefully keep it a best-seller for the next decade or more. Never before have Fiat or any of the proper car makers had to compete with the influx of the Chinese brands strategically flooding them out with much cheaper, all-promising specs. I must admit, I hope the EU uses its power to force a fair market for the mainstream car makers in the light of the Chinese EV influx. I don't know if they can really compete otherwise. Some sort of major import tax on them?

Watching with curiosity over what happens next. And looking forward to the first owner posts on here of 500e(ngine) owners and what it's like!

 

[dantay999]

More news. Essentially Fiat are following the industry in backtracking from an over-enthusiastic EV adoption strategy.



My two cents: I don't think the full EV thing is really going to happen. The technology and infrastructure, whilst not perfect, is more than 'good enough' for most people now. And still, no significant interest - or really, we wouldn't be seeing hesitancy from the makers who announced radical EV led plans going back like this. The technology is allegedly getting cheaper, but let's face it, that isn't really reflected on any of the first, now second generations of current EVs for sale. Not helped by global inflation, political instability, wars etc. Who knows what could be ahead if we get a new government in the UK, how the US election goes and what the mad-men in Russia / China decide to do in the coming years. I can't see stability bringing costs down much.

The 500e with an engine and hopefully a much lower cost (although we probably won't get that in the UK) will hopefully keep it a best-seller for the next decade or more. Never before have Fiat or any of the proper car makers had to compete with the influx of the Chinese brands strategically flooding them out with much cheaper, all-promising specs. I must admit, I hope the EU uses its power to force a fair market for the mainstream car makers in the light of the Chinese EV influx. I don't know if they can really compete otherwise. Some sort of major import tax on them?

Watching with curiosity over what happens next. And looking forward to the first owner posts on here of 500e(ngine) owners and what it's like!

Just saw this today and while I understand why Stellantis are doing this from a sales and business point of view I still see hybridisation as a step backwards and an over complication of the car in general.

If we had had better and cheaper battery technology when the transition started then this wouldn’t be nessesary but we are where we are.

As for Chinese imports, Stellantis will be importing Leap Motor EV’s to the UK from March next year apparently so it seems it’s a balancing act of keeping in with the Chinese whilst becoming more competitive.

Competition is good but unfair business practices are definitely not so I hope the EU helps Fiat and other brands weather the Chinese storm in the short/medium term but can also see that some legacy manufacturers won’t survive the transition.

 

[ben]

Oh God, it took me long enough to work out a name for the "new 500” forum, don't tell me I'll need to rename it again!

 

[varesecrazy]

Our Longtime FIAT franchise (had been Citroen and Ford too, now solely Blue Ovals) stopped around year ago,
You'd have thought Stellantis would've been a good fit there..

Out on their frontage the other day was a sign written "Funky Cat"..

They are obviously Hedging their bets too (I have yet to see a Funky Cat out on the road)

 

[SB1500]

Our Longtime FIAT franchise (had been Citroen and Ford too, now solely Blue Ovals) stopped around year ago,
You'd have thought Stellantis would've been a good fit there..

Out on their frontage the other day was a sign written "Funky Cat"..

They are obviously Hedging their bets too (I have yet to see a Funky Cat out on the road)

I don’t know why government isn’t acting faster on this wave of Chinese tat, why car Europe/UK companies are also welcoming them in with open arms (noticed Mercedes also sharing their dealerships with one of those brands) and most of all, why consumers are actually buying them.

And then, the same governments will be criticised on the failing / uncompetitive car industries in their member states…. The same car companies complaining they can’t compete, winding down, outsourcing (probably to China) or selling off their badges to Chinese companies or folding altogether. And then lastly, all of us, complaining that not only are there so little (or so expensive) or no UK/EU makers left, but that they have no corporate elements on our shores, no designers here, nothing other than a postal address and a badge that was once a Europe country car make.

I’m no expect but I reckon that’s what will happen. Why does nobody seem to care?

Those MGs are all using god awful 2000s GM petrol engines - probably modified for emissions. People just don’t care? Do they actually think they’re buying a British car? At a bargain basement price? that alone should prompt suspicion

 

[dantay999]

I don’t know why government isn’t acting faster on this wave of Chinese tat, why car Europe/UK companies are also welcoming them in with open arms (noticed Mercedes also sharing their dealerships with one of those brands) and most of all, why consumers are actually buying them.

And then, the same governments will be criticised on the failing / uncompetitive car industries in their member states…. The same car companies complaining they can’t compete, winding down, outsourcing (probably to China) or selling off their badges to Chinese companies or folding altogether. And then lastly, all of us, complaining that not only are there so little (or so expensive) or no UK/EU makers left, but that they have no corporate elements on our shores, no designers here, nothing other than a postal address and a badge that was once a Europe country car make.

I’m no expect but I reckon that’s what will happen. Why does nobody seem to care?

Those MGs are all using god awful 2000s GM petrol engines - probably modified for emissions. People just don’t care? Do they actually think they’re buying a British car? At a bargain basement price? that alone should prompt suspicion

With regard to Chinese manufacturers like MG (SIAC) they realised early on that a large chunk of the market doesn’t care about cars and views them in the same way as a fridge…..an appliance. These customers are not car people and will buy on price and features so if there is a good review on line and a badge they recognise and a long warranty all boxes are ticked and they will purchase……that’s exactly what SIAC offer with MG and why they are one of the best selling EV’s in the UK.

Would I buy one? Nope.

The disingenuous nature of the Chinese auto industry and the copy cat “design” practices of a low trust society entrenched in an authoritarian regime aren’t things I look for in a car manufacturer.

As with most things in life now it seems to be a race to the bottom.

I can guarantee as some legacy car companies go out of business in the coming years the government owned Chinese automakers will hoover up the brands and plunder their history as with MG and Volvo.

 

[StevenRB45]

Found a bit more info...

Wonder if the low price version will be an LFP battery as per new Panda and C3 as otherwise there's a good chance the petrol 500e will cost more than an electric Panda and the electric version of the 500e could be left costing 10k more than an electric Panda with a shorter range.

New hybrid Fiat 500 Ibrida coming soon, while all-electric 500e will be getting cheaper | Auto Express

The hybrid version of Fiat’s chic city car will be built in Italy, alongside the original EV

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[dantay999]

Found a bit more info...

Wonder if the low price version will be an LFP battery as per new Panda and C3 as otherwise there's a good chance the petrol 500e will cost more than an electric Panda and the electric version of the 500e could be left costing 10k more than an electric Panda with a shorter range.

New hybrid Fiat 500 Ibrida coming soon, while all-electric 500e will be getting cheaper | Auto Express

The hybrid version of Fiat’s chic city car will be built in Italy, alongside the original EV

www.autoexpress.co.uk

I’m betting it will move to LFP…..heavier, larger, more susceptible to cold weather range drop…….but way cheaper and can be charged to 100% with no longevity issues.

 

[StevenRB45]

Less burny as well...to use the technical term.

It seems they investigating putting the same powertrains as go under the new C3 and Panda under it.

 

[JTD_Liam]

I think it's a great idea. Fiat have done a really good job of the 500e but it seems such a shame that the majority of 500 buyers are stuck with the old tech & (having got a 2023 Hybrid in the family) very tired feeling 2007 500.

At the time Fiat were right to do what they did with the 500e, but there's a variety of reasons why a lot of current 500 (Hybrid) drivers wouldn't switch to the 500e, including price, range and in our case no reasonable prospect of installing a fast charger at home. Fiat have just cut the price by £3000, whilst maintaining the additional £3000 e-Grant, meaning they are now one of the cheapest EVs available & in the ballpark of the upcoming Grande Panda EV, but the other problems remain and unfortunately for the 500e, it's a car bought by nearly all private buyers, not fleet or business where the bulk of EV sales are, so I think putting an engine in will realise the full potential of a great car, at a time when the current Hybrid model doesn't have time on its side.

 

[AndyRKett]

I think it's a great idea. Fiat have done a really good job of the 500e but it seems such a shame that the majority of 500 buyers are stuck with the old tech & (having got a 2023 Hybrid in the family) very tired feeling 2007 500.

At the time Fiat were right to do what they did with the 500e, but there's a variety of reasons why a lot of current 500 (Hybrid) drivers wouldn't switch to the 500e, including price, range and in our case no reasonable prospect of installing a fast charger at home. Fiat have just cut the price by £3000, whilst maintaining the additional £3000 e-Grant, meaning they are now one of the cheapest EVs available & in the ballpark of the upcoming Grande Panda EV, but the other problems remain and unfortunately for the 500e, it's a car bought by nearly all private buyers, not fleet or business where the bulk of EV sales are, so I think putting an engine in will realise the full potential of a great car, at a time when the current Hybrid model doesn't have time on its side.

I think the merger and formation of stellantis combined with new cheaper battery tech has brought the price down massively.

The most shocking side of this is the price of used 500e going stupidly cheap for cars only a couple of years old
£13k seems to be the top end for used cars and some are under £10k

I would not be impressed if I’d spent £35k on one once a year or so ago

 

[JTD_Liam]

I was wondering if they're able to make money on them at the new price, as they're produced in Italy, on their own bespoke platform and use parts that don't appear to be shared across Stellantis, as is the case with the new 600 & Jeep Avenger, for example. However presumably they're making *some* money from them and can afford to absorb this reduced profit more readily than Fiat could as part of the smaller FCA.

I agree with you though, I'd be very unimpressed if I bought one at list price a year or two ago. If I didn't do so many long motorway journeys & could have a home charger, I'd be all over a second hand La Prima model at those second hand prices!