Technical 2th cooling fan, where is temp sensor located

[Salmon]

2th Cooling fan generate check engine light.
Ducato Chassis (250, 290) 130 Multijet 2,3 D Diesel (131 hk / 96 kW F1AE3481D)
The check engine light is always on, and i have located the problem using ICARSOFT
diagnostic tool to be the 2th cooling fan not working.
I have jumped the fan and the fan is working and ok. I switched the two relays controlling fan1 and fan2
as fan1 is working. The relays is identical, and the fuses are ok, but no luck.
Now i have to check the temp sensor controlling fan2 but i dont know where to look for it..?
I will appreciate if someone could tell me where to look for errors?

 

[Communicator]

2th Cooling fan generate check engine light.
Ducato Chassis (250, 290) 130 Multijet 2,3 D Diesel (131 hk / 96 kW F1AE3481D)
The check engine light is always on, and i have located the problem using ICARSOFT
diagnostic tool to be the 2th cooling fan not working.
I have jumped the fan and the fan is working and ok. I switched the two relays controlling fan1 and fan2
as fan1 is working. The relays is identical, and the fuses are ok, but no luck.
Now i have to check the temp sensor controlling fan2 but i dont know where to look for it..?
I will appreciate if someone could tell me where to look for errors?

On the earlier 2.3jtd engine, cooling fan control was via the engine computer (ECU), with only one sensor. I expect your later 2.3 multijet to be similar.
Normally the ECU monitors the relay coil circuit only, so it may be that the 2nd fan relay operating circuit is faulty.
The engine bay fusebox on the x250, and possibly later models is known to be a source of problems. Here is a link to advice on cleaning the fusebox, including pictures of the internal parts. Faulty wiring (open circuit) between the ECU, and the fusebox is another possible cause.

 

[Salmon]

On the earlier 2.3jtd engine, cooling fan control was via the engine computer (ECU), with only one sensor. I expect your later 2.3 multijet to be similar.
Normally the ECU monitors the relay coil circuit only, so it may be that the 2nd fan relay operating circuit is faulty.
The engine bay fusebox on the x250, and possibly later models is known to be a source of problems. Here is a link to advice on cleaning the fusebox, including pictures of the internal parts. Faulty wiring (open circuit) between the ECU, and the fusebox is another possible cause.

Hi,
Thanks for your replay. The car is from 2008. I have checked the fuses and relays, all good. No corrosion detected.
I think that there must be two separat sensors, one for fan1 and one for fan2 but i dont know where to look..?
There is one two pin connector to each fan, to provide power i think, so the sensors must be located somewhere else..?

 

[MSjoberg]

I enclose a description from eLearn, hopefully it matches your car model.

 

[Salmon]

I enclose a description from eLearn, hopefully it matches your car model.

Hi
Thanks for your reply and for the electric diagram. It helps alot.

Since the No1 fan is working, i will assume that the temp sensor is ok.
Both fans use the same ground so that should also be ok.
Then, i assume that the relay or power from the ECU to the relay must be
the problem.
Any idea of colour on the wire from K6 relay to the ECU, and from K6 to Fan2?

 

[MSjoberg]

I found this in the 2016 Converters and Upfitters Manual, suppose the acronyms were the same for previous models. If so, H=grey and HM= grey/brown.

 

[jackwhoo]

After switching the relays did you erase the code to turn off the engine light?
Did the light come back on with the same code?

 

[Communicator]

Worth noting that on the x244, and x250 2.2, the wiring is different if air conditioning is fitted. This may also apply to the x250 2.3multijet.

 

[Communicator]

I found this in the 2016 Converters and Upfitters Manual, suppose the acronyms were the same for previous models. If so, H=grey and HM= grey/brown.

View attachment 446138

I attach my own version. I find that including the Italian colour names, helps with memorising the colours..

 

[Salmon]

After switching the relays did you erase the code to turn off the engine light?
Did the light come back on with the same code?

Yes, i did that, but no luck. The light still there. I tested the fan by removing the relay and shorting 30 and 87 socket, and the fan starts.
Now i have to measure the line between the socket where relay pin 85 is and pin 69 one the ECU but i need a better wiring diagram. I have seen in the Download area, but all is to be burned to CD before use, and i dont have a CD burner or CDs. It must be possible to upload something that dosent need a cd burner...?

 

[Salmon]

I attach my own version. I find that including the Italian colour names, helps with memorising the colours..

Just what i was looking for. Thanks alot!

 

[Salmon]

I found this in the 2016 Converters and Upfitters Manual, suppose the acronyms were the same for previous models. If so, H=grey and HM= grey/brown.

View attachment 446138

Takker

 

[MSjoberg]

Yes, i did that, but no luck. The light still there. I tested the fan by removing the relay and shorting 30 and 87 socket, and the fan starts.
Now i have to measure the line between the socket where relay pin 85 is and pin 69 one the ECU but i need a better wiring diagram. I have seen in the Download area, but all is to be burned to CD before use, and i dont have a CD burner or CDs. It must be possible to upload something that dosent need a cd burner...?

You can mount the CD image as a virtual CD. I think newer Windows versions have the possibility to that without any extra software. On the old Windows XP laptop I use for my Ducato, I installed Virtual CloneDrive to mount it. There are probably other options also.

Lykke til!

 

[Communicator]

Information on the Bosch EDC 16C39 ECU is available on page 90 of the "X250 Training Manual" which is available in the downloads section. (Select the larger file offered, as shorter one is for the 3 litre engine.

 

[Salmon]

Information on the Bosch EDC 16C39 ECU is available on page 90 of the "X250 Training Manual" which is available in the downloads section. (Select the larger file offered, as shorter one is for the 3 litre engine.

Hi,

I`m not able to find "X250 Training manual" . Is that the discription ?? Could you be more spesifik where to find it?

 

[MSjoberg]

Hi,

I`m not able to find "X250 Training manual" . Is that the discription ?? Could you be more spesifik where to find it?

The two files appear after pressing the Download button in this link. As described above, select the larger one.

Fiat Ducato Training Manual - Reviews

www.fiatforum.com

 

[Salmon]

After switching the relays did you erase the code to turn off the engine light?
Did the light come back on with the same code?

Yes, but no luck.
Now i`m a bit frustrated, here is why:
I have changed the temp sensor located on top of the thermostat. No luck.
The funny part is that, when connecting an car diagnosis tool, it is possible to run the 2th fan.
When that is possible, i belive that the wireing, the relay and fuse is ok. Since no1 fan works, i belive that the temp sensor is ok, as there are
only one temp sensor controlling both fans.
I was visiting the local car repair garage, and was told that the system could be ok, but it could be a problem to
get rid of the warning light.
I was told that Fiat had made an bulletin about that:
"Note that the error P0480-P0481-P0482 often cannot be deleted after repair. The only way to delete the error code is to activate
the air condition, and let it work until no2 fan has ben activated, then you can delete the error code"
I`m living at the artic side of the artic sircle, and have to wait for a good summer day...
Now, how come, that the air condition could activate the 2nd fan..?

 

[jackwhoo]

Yes, but no luck.
Now i`m a bit frustrated, here is why:
I have changed the temp sensor located on top of the thermostat. No luck.
The funny part is that, when connecting an car diagnosis tool, it is possible to run the 2th fan.
When that is possible, i belive that the wireing, the relay and fuse is ok. Since no1 fan works, i belive that the temp sensor is ok, as there are
only one temp sensor controlling both fans.
I was visiting the local car repair garage, and was told that the system could be ok, but it could be a problem to
get rid of the warning light.
I was told that Fiat had made an bulletin about that:
"Note that the error P0480-P0481-P0482 often cannot be deleted after repair. The only way to delete the error code is to activate
the air condition, and let it work until no2 fan has ben activated, then you can delete the error code"
When you, as i am, are living at the artic side of the artic sircle, i have to wait for a good summer day...
Now, how come, that the air condition could activate the 2nd fan..?

You can have a.c. and heat at same time so you won't freeze (-:
A.c. will work as long as outside temperature is above a set low limit possibly 3°
Good in for from local garage about possible possible delete code problem.

 

[Salmon]

SOLVED:
I finally manage to solve the problem with the 2th cooling fan not working. It generated the P0481 fault code, and light up the yellow service engine soon light.
The problem was a tiny Brown/Grey cable going from the F6 relay to the ECU. I had to open up the cable tray, and trace the cable. First you have to remove the fusepanel in the engine bay and disconnect the harness from the panel. Then disconnect the harness from the ECU. Not far from the ECU the cable is soldered together with another tiny cable going to earth ground. I found 4 breaks on the cable. The insulation was damaged and the cable was worn off by irr.
I then removed most of the cable and replaced it with a new more robust one.
This fault is common on this Fiat Engine, and Fiat has issued a Bulletin NO-4834 on this matter.
Note that when you have finished your work, the check engine light will not disapper. You first has to run the fan once, then you can delete the P0481 fault code.
Thanks to all that supported me with information. Sorry for my bad spelling...