General 2012 New Panda - all comments here please :)

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General 2012 New Panda - all comments here please :)

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The chassis on the Riley Nine "worked perfectly well" in 1926 so why don't we still have flexible chassis and rigid semi-elliptic springs with solid axles? Everything spent on development since must have been wasted.

No-one has more liking for Fiat's smallest cars than I have - we've owned three Topolinos, 3 Nuova 500s, a Cinquecento, a Seicento, four original Pandas, and are on our second and third current Pandas (apart from numerous other Italian cars) - but you fall behind if you stand still. Fiat is always struggling to be profitable and the folly is illustrated by the current 500 - despite the appeal of its cutesy styling, Fiat can't charge Mini/VW prices because it's built on a Panda platform, restricting profits from what should be a non-price-sensitive sector. The same problems afflict the Lancia range.

Fiat has been at its most successful precisely when it has innovated - Topolino, 600, Nuova 500, 128.

The weight issue is particularly pertinent. I forget the precise numbers but something like 80% of the cost of making a mass-production car is in the cost of materials, and this can only go up as natural resources become more expensive. Losing weight brings all sorts of benefits - costs, performance, economy, handling - adding weight is just wrong. Fiat is spending huge amounts on R&D, though not as much as it should, and it's allowing itself to be crippled by low productivity and marginal profitability. It needs to to solve its labour problems and have the courage to innovate.

It's not Fiat's duty to make cars as cheaply as it can - Europe needs to leave that to the Far East - might mean your next Panda is slightly more expensive but it wouldn't be outclassed as the new one will be within a few years.

Would you rather be in Fiat's shoes or VW's?

I never noticed this before, completely agree with you too.

I think people are making judgements based on never having seen the new Panda and also letting their fondness for the current Panda cloud their judgement.

The current Panda is simply too long in the tooth to be competitive other than in the ultra low cost category. That's fine for a lot on here I'm sure, but some people don't want to only buy an uber basic car with 4 wheels, some seats and a steering wheel.

I've had a look at the configurator and IMHO the new Panda has more to offer the buyer in 2012 than the current one does :)
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

Very interesting, thanks JTD Liam.

whats the score with the 'Twin Air' engine, how does that work? i'm sure its not a two cylinder air cooled??

Despite the Parents having a TwinAir 500 on order, i don't know a huge amount about how it works! :eek: I think it uses Fiat's 'MultiAir' technology, which i'm sure is explained somewhere on fiat.co.uk, but whereas most of the MultiAir engines are 4 cyclinder, the TwinAir is just 2 cylinder. It's water-cooled though, rather than air-cooled.

In the new Panda there will be 2 versions of this engine, one with a turbo (85bhp) and one without (65bhp) whereas to-date only the 85bhp has been available (in the 500 and Lancia/Chrysler Ypsilon).
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

there is nothing to stop them making a 3 cylinder 1312cc multiair engine in both N/A and forced induction forms. The plan was to use the same cylinder on a whole multiair engine family up and including the 1750cc engine and now that Ford and Renault and the rest of the european manufacturers have decided to make 3 cyclinder engines they may be forced to bring out a three-cylinder engine for the Bravo and Punto regardless of whether they like it or not.
A three cylinder n/a multiair would probably be a better engine in the Panda than either twin 65bhp or 85bhp engine.
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

there is nothing to stop them making a 3 cylinder 1312cc multiair engine in both N/A and forced induction forms. The plan was to use the same cylinder on a whole multiair engine family up and including the 1750cc engine and now that Ford and Renault and the rest of the european manufacturers have decided to make 3 cyclinder engines they may be forced to bring out a three-cylinder engine for the Bravo and Punto regardless of whether they like it or not.
A three cylinder n/a multiair would probably be a better engine in the Panda than either twin 65bhp or 85bhp engine.

I agree, the 3cyl n/a motor in my C1 is great! Revs out very well, plus has enough torque to climb hills at 30mph in 5th gear. I'm a big fan of 3cyl engines.
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

I take it the point of all this is lower emissions & better MPG?

lets face it a two pot narrow boat engine will be better than the horrid de-tuned fire engine in my active Eco!!
When i heard it was the 1100 fire engine i thought it'd go like a stabbed rat, how wrong was !! LOL

No complaints for £7K though!
 
Quattroruote has just published this

http://www.quattroruote.it/notizie/foto-spia/fiat-panda-4x4-ecco-le-prime-immagini

about the new model 4x4, on final test in Scandinavia, to be shown at the Geneva show in March for delivery in the second half of 2012. 75 hp MJ or 85 hp TwinAir; six speed with crawler first gear; plastic wheelarch and sill protection; electro-mechanical central diff. There will also be a Treking model with similar setup but only front wheel drive with Traction+, which "simulates a limited slip differential'.
 
Quattroruote has just published this

http://www.quattroruote.it/notizie/foto-spia/fiat-panda-4x4-ecco-le-prime-immagini

about the new model 4x4, on final test in Scandinavia, to be shown at the Geneva show in March for delivery in the second half of 2012. 75 hp MJ or 85 hp TwinAir; six speed with crawler first gear; plastic wheelarch and sill protection; electro-mechanical central diff. There will also be a Treking model with similar setup but only front wheel drive with Traction+, which "simulates a limited slip differential'.

This sort of half-arsed stuff is really starting to annoy me. Sure the standard 4x4 is pretty good and I'm sure it's enough for most, but rather than make a silly model like the trekking with back to front ABS, why not actually make a 4x4 with some proper LSD's?

I was very impressed with our Subaru when I drove it up a hill covered in packed snow, it was the rear LSD and centre lsd that got it up the hill. That was on summer tyres too.

If Fiat made the Panda into an even better 4x4 with proper diffs then I think they'd get more sales than they'll gain with that silly trekking crap.....
 
This sort of half-arsed stuff is really starting to annoy me. Sure the standard 4x4 is pretty good and I'm sure it's enough for most, but rather than make a silly model like the trekking with back to front ABS, why not actually make a 4x4 with some proper LSD's?

I was very impressed with our Subaru when I drove it up a hill covered in packed snow, it was the rear LSD and centre lsd that got it up the hill. That was on summer tyres too.

If Fiat made the Panda into an even better 4x4 with proper diffs then I think they'd get more sales than they'll gain with that silly trekking crap.....

I'm inclined to agree, it's a poser's dream, though I suppose it could just offer a little more mud-plugging ability than a normal Panda. It really means the Treking is just another tarted up model - add a few hundred quid's worth of bits and charge a few thousand more. On the other hand, the new TwinAir 4x4 is the only version of the new Panda that appeals to me as the heavy, bulbous look, specially the over-blown wheelarches, are not such a problem on the 4x4.
 
This months "Car" mag gives the new Panda ( TA ) a glowing review and five stars. Normally a bit anti Fiat they reckon it's the best small car you can buy.

This should be a bit of a wakeup call to the people who think that Fiat should have continued on with the current model Panda for however long they have till they go bankrupt.
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

What have these crazy B*****d's done to the the Panda,
It now looks like Clio or anything else in that size range.
SORRY FIAT I WONT BE BUYING ONE.
Ian.
 
Re: Anyone been playing on the 2012 Panda Configurator?

I've had a look at video on u-tube, basicly they've done witchcraft with the inlet valve opening !
Its not easy to understand whilst listening to the italian man & reading subtitels , but I did grasp that the inlet valve can remain fully closed in certain modes. i wonder if this improves engine braking? I know we're taught not to these days but people are used to the retardation from a 4 pot, i'd think a 2 pot would be quite scary!

the other 'odd' thing is the two pistons move up & down together, at first I thought this was strange but thinking about it it'll give one fire stroke every 180 deg of crank shaft revoloution. there's a heavy looking balancer shaft in the crank case too!


Ian, its strange how the look of the new Panda struck us differently! I though how like a Panda it looks, the rear has kept the distinctive square windows for one thing.
I also won't be buying one :( :cry:
 
Fantastic! So the 4x4 will be out just in time for summer when everyone wants 4x4's. Oh wait.....

Clueless fools.

A car isn't just for christmas.....



I have a feeling the new panda will grow on most people as although it looks bulbous in the flesh it will still appear small and probably well proportioned.

The trekking model sounds great as most people need a bit more clearance and traction to get around without the economy penalties of the 4wd on the autostrada and at the pumps. Alot people at work run the natural power pandas with the 4x4 body kit and raised height as they can go anywhere the habitated alps have to offer and cost very little to run.


The biggest problem with the trekking is that it will cannibalise sales from the proper 4x4.
 
Saw one on the M25 today on trade plates. It looks great. Much nicer than the VW UP!.

ON 4x4's; my dealer said they could sell them all day, every one which comes in is immediately snapped up. On bling: People are going to buy the Trekking on its looks because that's what people do (he says) and on used Pandas; dealers are knocking £1000 off 2008/9/10 models if you look around, so it's a great time to buy a used Panda from a dealer, and a terrible time to sell one privately.
 
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