General 1998 Fiat ducato start up problems

[Geezpot]

Hi all, I am new to the forum and have already found it super helpful so thankyou all.
I am having an issue with my 1998 ducato 1.9td starting. It turns over but it's obviously not receiving diesel to the injectors. I have checked all fuses and relays and I am getting power to the high pressure injectors when the key is on (so for now have ruled out the immobiliser).
Can anyone tell me if there is a solenoid on the high pressure injectors that i can remove and test? or have pictures and suggestion how to remove it/test it? Any help will be appreciated.
Also does anyone know if it has a lift pump in the tank? Seems to be only two wires running to it so thought it might just be the fuel gauge sensor.
I am not a mechanic or auto electrician so basic terminology would be helpful.

 

[cid]

Hi, How long have you owned the van? what procedure do you use to start it? Ian.

 

[Geezpot]

Hi, How long have you owned the van? what procedure do you use to start it? Ian.

I have owned the van for about a year. I have always just turned the key and it starts 1st kick. I didn't receive a red key to reset the immobiliser but was told it has been removed or bypassed.
It appears the solenoid on the injector pump is not clicking but not 100% if it has one or if i am just looking at a sensor mounted in it. I am currently looking up on the net if I can remove it to bench test it, not sure if I take it out if its under pressure or not.

 

[cid]

Hi geezpot, I have a 1996 1.9td and have owned it for 17 years. My starting procedure has always been:- turn key till ignition light comes on, watch glow plug light until it goes out, start van. 1st time every time. Trying to start without waiting for glow plugs is almost impossible, even in summer. Try it and see how it goes before dismantling anything. Ian

 

[Geezpot]

Hi geezpot, I have a 1996 1.9td and have owned it for 17 years. My starting procedure has always been:- turn key till ignition light comes on, watch glow plug light until it goes out, start van. 1st time every time. Trying to start without waiting for glow plugs is almost impossible, even in summer. Try it and see how it goes before dismantling anything. Ian

Thankyou Cid, i probably should have given you more details on start up. I use the same procedure as you, waiting for the glowplug light to come off. I appreciate your thoughts though.

 

[cid]

Hi again, That's about as far as my knowledge of the diesel engine goes. I may be about to jinx my van but, the engine has never failed in 17 years so I've never had to solve any engine related problems. Best of Luck, Ian.

 

[Geezpot]

I have since removed the solenoid from the injectors, bench tested it and it works fine. My next step is to see if there is a lift pump in the fuel tank and test it but i am not sure if it has one. Does anyone know if it has one?

 

[Geezpot]

Hi again, That's about as far as my knowledge of the diesel engine goes. I may be about to jinx my van but, the engine has never failed in 17 years so I've never had to solve any engine related problems. Best of Luck, Ian.

Thankyou again Ian.

 

[cid]

Hi, I'm Back (wife dragged me out shopping). Had another thought. Have you let the van run out of diesel lately? Mine came with a bubble type primer pump to suck up diesel from tank. I removed it and now I never let her run out of fuel. Just a thought, things just don't suddenly stop working unless it's an electrical fault. You, normally, get some kind of warning. Ian

 

[Communicator]

I have since removed the solenoid from the injectors, bench tested it and it works fine. My next step is to see if there is a lift pump in the fuel tank and test it but i am not sure if it has one. Does anyone know if it has one?

If less than 4 wires to tank unit, then no lift pump in tank. With pre 2000 Fiat diesels it seems that the practice was to rely on the transfer pump included in the injection pump assembly. However ther will be a strainer in the tank. Worth checking that it is not clogged.

 

[Geezpot]

Hi, I'm Back (wife dragged me out shopping). Had another thought. Have you let the van run out of diesel lately? Mine came with a bubble type primer pump to suck up diesel from tank. I removed it and now I never let her run out of fuel. Just a thought, things just don't suddenly stop working unless it's an electrical fault. You, normally, get some kind of warning. Ian

Thankyou Ian, I will give it a try.

 

[Geezpot]

If less than 4 wires to tank unit, then no lift pump in tank. With pre 2000 Fiat diesels it seems that the practice was to rely on the transfer pump included in the injection pump assembly. However ther will be a strainer in the tank. Worth checking that it is not clogged.

Thankyou, I will give it a clean.

 

[Communicator]

Hi geezpot, I have a 1996 1.9td and have owned it for 17 years. My starting procedure has always been:- turn key till ignition light comes on, watch glow plug light until it goes out, start van. 1st time every time. Trying to start without waiting for glow plugs is almost impossible, even in summer. Try it and see how it goes before dismantling anything. Ian

My experience with several different engines, has been that glowplugs were only required when starting a cold engine.

 

[cid]

Hi Communicator, Ordinarily I would bow to your superior knowledge but, in this case, I can only quote from experience of my own van. If I don't let the glow plugs do their job she is very reluctant to start, winter or summer, hot or cold. I'd sooner be patient with the glow plugs than risk putting excess stress on the battery and, as I've said, I've had the van for 17 years. All the Best, Ian.

 

[Communicator]

@Geezpot ,

Please excuse my pointing this out. It may be a translation problem, but you seem to be having some problem with diesel engine terminology, and component identification.

The unit on the side of the engine with pipes wire(s) and controls connected is the injection pump. This will be a Bosch VE model. It will have a stop solenoid valve screwed into the pressure head, with a single wire attached. I think that it is this solenoid valve that you have bench tested. "Stop solenoid" is the common neme, but is misleading as it needs to be energised from the ignition switch to allow injection. Have you confirmed that you have 12V at the solenoid with ignition on?

The injection pump probably has another electrical device with two wires connected. This is the cold start device. It contains wax which is electrically heated to allow self resetting when the engine warms up. It works by advancing the injection time, which gives the fuel more time to burn in a cold engine..

The injectors are the four items that enter into the engine cylinders and have pressure pipe connections and common leak off pipe attached.
A common test is to slightly slacken an injector pressure connection union nut,and check for fuel. If carrying out this test, make absolutely sure that any spray of diesel cannot touch your skin. It can cause blood poisoning.

To avoid confusion the glowplugs also enter each of the four cylinders, but thee will have a thick electrical connection, which your injectors will not have

 

[Geezpot]

@Geezpot ,

Please excuse my pointing this out. It may be a translation problem, but you seem to be having some problem with diesel engine terminology, and component identification.

The unit on the side of the engine with pipes wire(s) and controls connected is the injection pump. This will be a Bosch VE model. It will have a stop solenoid valve screwed into the pressure head, with a single wire attached. I think that it is this solenoid valve that you have bench tested. "Stop solenoid" is the common neme, but is misleading as it needs to be energised from the ignition switch to allow injection. Have you confirmed that you have 12V at the solenoid with ignition on?

The injection pump probably has another electrical device with two wires connected. This is the cold start device. It contains wax which is electrically heated to allow self resetting when the engine warms up. It works by advancing the injection time, which gives the fuel more time to burn in a cold engine..

The injectors are the four items that enter into the engine cylinders and have pressure pipe connections and common leak off pipe attached.
A common test is to slightly slacken an injector pressure connection union nut,and check for fuel. If carrying out this test, make absolutely sure that any spray of diesel cannot touch your skin. It can cause blood poisoning.

To avoid confusion the glowplugs also enter each of the four cylinders, but thee will have a thick electrical connection, which your injectors will not have

Thats a wealth of knowledge. Much appreciated and you are right about the terminology, I am just flying by the seat of my parts due to where the van is stuck and the lack of auto electricians in the area.
I can confirm i am receiving 12v to the solenoid when the ignition is on and fitted to the van. I have loosened one of the injectors and confirm its not spraying when cranking the engine.
I will tackle the cold start next as the air temperature is sitting around zero at the moment. I have no clue about it but will do my best to google it and come up with a plan.
Thanks again for your input, everything helps.

 

[Communicator]

Thats a wealth of knowledge. Much appreciated and you are right about the terminology, I am just flying by the seat of my parts due to where the van is stuck and the lack of auto electricians in the area.
I can confirm i am receiving 12v to the solenoid when the ignition is on and fitted to the van. I have loosened one of the injectors and confirm its not spraying when cranking the engine.
I will tackle the cold start next as the air temperature is sitting around zero at the moment. I have no clue about it but will do my best to google it and come up with a plan.
Thanks again for your input, everything helps.

I do not think that a failure of the cold start device (not the glowplugs) would stop the engine from firing, but no fuel to the injectors most certainly would. In my opinion that is where you need to concentrate your efforts. A small leak in the fuel pipe from the tank will stop the pump from priming.

There are other current threads addressing similar problems to yours. You may find some posts in this thread helpful.

 

[Geezpot]

I do not think that a failure of the cold start device (not the glowplugs) would stop the engine from firing, but no fuel to the injectors most certainly would. In my opinion that is where you need to concentrate your efforts. A small leak in the fuel pipe from the tank will stop the pump from priming.

There are other current threads addressing similar problems to yours. You may find some posts in this thread helpful.

That is helpful. Do you have any idea if it has a ecu and possible location?

 

[Communicator]

That is helpful. Do you have any idea if it has a ecu and possible location?

No ECU in 1998 Ducato. ECUs are part of common rail injection systems, which were only introduced to the Ducato in year 2000.