Technical 1242 8v SPI Preparing Engine For Turboing

[balidey]

Thread should be M18x1.5, thats standard Lambda size. Should also be the same thread as a spark plug, if that helps

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

Thanks for that balidey will get on to that when i get a chance.

Now something I have been asked by Bill (about using MS to control on boost fuelling only) is does the cinq have a hotwire airflow meter?

Anyone got any answers for this, cos i have no idea what it means

Also, would a UT intercooler be suitable for use on a cinq tub?

Thanks again

 

[J333EVO]

Air flow meter, no.

Uno intercooler, maybe, its all about placement and where the inlet and outlets are.

 

[randomizered]

No airflow meter at all afaik, its just uses a MAP. You can retrofit one from another vehicle if you need one though.

Kristian

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

okey thanks aaron, thinking of using MS cos i'm gonna go MPI afterwards just to keep things moving along, here's exactly what Bill said to me, if you could unscramble it for me it would be muchos appreciated

"Assuming you are not worried about spark retard under boost then it is relatively simple. You trigger MS off the tacho feed and set the fuelling to only start when under boost (MAP >100KPA). Any of the MS variants will do that. You can ignore coolant sensor, but Inlet air temp sensor is still needed. You can share the OEM one with the main ECU, but I would recommend adding another one."

Thanks again

Lenny

 

[randomizered]

hehe, my names not Aaron

I'm a bit confused. Are you thinking of using the MS to control on boost fuelling, piggybacking the stock ECU, or replacing the ECU entirely?

Kristian

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

haha thank you too kristian! thanks to everyone who's helping me along the way My plan of action is as follows;

Get SPi low blow tub in and running using MS to piggyback the stock ECU for on boost fuelling only.

Convert SPi to MPi low blow tub, using MS to replace the stock ECU.

Convert MPi low blow to hi-boost :slayer: (possibly ) lol

first 2 stages are definates thou

Thanks again

Lenny

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

right, i have a couple more questions (of many i bet ) can i use the cinq sporting 1108 lambda sensor on the 1242 8v? and where would i be best to place the lambda sensor on the turbo elbow? remember looking through some pictures and seen that it was right on the top corner of one of the turbo elbows i seen, would this be ok? or is it not particularly important?

Many thanks in advance?

Lenny

 

[randomizered]

yes you can use the other lambda i believe, but don't have it too close to the turbo, as the heat will kill it soon.

I'd have the lambda a lot further down the line if possible, maybe 50cm or more from the turbo. It's also less likely to get wet if it temporarily overfuels on boost (place it pointing into the side of the pipe if poss)....if it does get wet it can cause the ecu to think its gone lean and then chuck even more fuel in lol.

I've never looked into using the MS as a piggyback tbh, or how it deals with turbo, so no help i'm afraid. The megamanual should be a big help though

Kristian

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

right, thanks kristian, i'll place it further down the pipe then on the 'downward' facing part. Is the penetration depth of the sensor in to the pipe crucial? or would i be ok to get a measurement of my lambda socket length off of my SS manifold and just make it to that length? if you see what i mean?

Thanks again

Lenny

 

[randomizered]

the lambda sockets are 50p at my local exhaust place as far as i remember and are welded straight on to the pipe, not recessed or anything. I'd imagine you'll just need all of the tip exposed in the pipe, recess it back a bit and you'll get lower readings (a tip used to fool obd2 second lambdas with regards to CAT's)

Kristian

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

so if i just make the socket how thick? 10mm should do it then? is the 1108 and 1242 lambda the same shape/design as the 899 one? as i have one of them knocking about and could use it during the socket making to aid fitting?

Thanks again

 

[gazzaman2k]

all the same lambas matey

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

another question for everybody now, to run a hi-boost (0.6-0.8 bar) 1242 8v spi conversion what compression ratio should i be looking at running? and would it be acheivable by using the punto 85 16v pistons and con rods in the 8v block? I know this is mentioned on Trickers turbo thread, but he's using a different head so might be different figures, i don't know a lot about compression ratio so i'm hoping someone can help me out with this, because i can get hold of a set of p85 pistons for a GOOD price

Many thanks in advance, again

Lenny

 

[davethetrike]

another question for everybody now, to run a hi-boost (0.6-0.8 bar) 1242 8v spi conversion what compression ratio should i be looking at running? and would it be acheivable by using the punto 85 16v pistons and con rods in the 8v block? I know this is mentioned on Trickers turbo thread, but he's using a different head so might be different figures, i don't know a lot about compression ratio so i'm hoping someone can help me out with this, because i can get hold of a set of p85 pistons for a GOOD price

Many thanks in advance, again

Lenny

16V pistons are totally different to 8v pistons 4 cut outs in each piston for the valves.

Regarding compression I'm running 9.3:1 on 0.8bar supercharged with no problems with detonation etc. The area and swept volume on the 1242 gives a nice rule of thumb regarding compression. every 0.9mm = about a 1 step up / reduction.
My 16v runs standard 10.3:1, using a decomp plate from farriday that is 0.9mm thick this is reduced to 9.3:1.
When adding boost that compression ratio effectively rises and iirc my effective ratio at 0.8 is in the region of 12.0:1 which is scary stuff. However, the intercooler keeps charge temperature down and no problems currently.
If you get a decomp plate from Farriday he'll do the number crunching.

In short. mines working at 0.8 bar at 9.3:1 with an intercooler and modified 80c stat and a massive rad Plus DTA management. If I were you I'd target between 8.5:1 and 9.0:1. Mines pushing my luck.
Hope that helps
Good luck
DtT

 

[arc]

Tricker has used 16v pistons in his 1242 8v to good sucess, i'm pretty sure he just used standard ones too..

 

[davethetrike]

Tricker has used 16v pistons in his 1242 8v to good sucess, i'm pretty sure he just used standard ones too..

Whys he done that Arc?
Higher compression?
The cut outs would need removing as they are certainly different from the 8v and the landing above the first ring is quite thin. Ahh, maybe they lower compression on an 8v?

Ah well, I'll butt out.

 

[arc]

yeah, they lower the compression on the 8v.

https://www.fiatforum.com/members-motors/118116-trickers-cinq-turbo-project.html <-- thats his.

 

[Tricker...]

I used standart 16v pistons.
I believe that no one else have tried a "16v pistons in a 8v engine" combination before, so I had to try it out my self and so far it works fine.
The CR will be lowered to 7.8:1 - I know it's a little low, but the car is still very drive able and makes a good output.
16v piston is a great option to low CR on the 8v engine when going high boost and with these pistons you can afford to get a proper fuel management system that also does ignition - that is the most important part of a turbo project.

The CR figures on your 1242cc will be the same as mine cause the combustion chambers in the two cylinderheads are the same and don't mind the 4 valve cuts in the 16v piston top cause the burn will be in the middle of the piston anyway.

Go for it m8 - it worked out great for me...

 

[arc]

looking into the future.. for turbo'ing mine it might make sense to source some 16v pistons. my head is skimmed to the max markers, so i'd be looking decom plate, or even (another) new head plus decom plate. Using the 16v pistons wouldn't drop my CR as low as 7.8:1.

Tricker, you don't know what the CR would be on a 1242 8v with the head skimmed down the max markers do you? I don't even know how much of the head has been skimmed off, just know its skimmed to max markers!