Technical 1242 8v SPI Preparing Engine For Turboing

[h2ypr]

it is that *that* difficult to set up a tune a knock sensor. given that knock is audible, when you are setting the sensor - if it detects knock, and you cannot hear it through the tube you've got pointing at your engine block.. then its not set right.

onto AFR displays, i use a HP Nightflight gauge. It is similar to what has been posted. It is a "narrowband gauge". all this means is that the voltage range it accepts is between 0 and 1v, not 0 and 5v like a wideband signal. However, it does not matter, the LC1 has two analog outputs. You set one to output between 0 and 5v (for the ECU) and the other to 0 and 1v (for the gauge).

Just because it is being display on an NB gauge, does not make it a NB readout. It is still WB.

I cant disagree with your last statement, because i just havent tried it, or heard of anyone else that has. Thing is, why would they supply a WB gauge if a NB was good enough? Tbh i think the narrowband output is supposed to be used to feed the ecu, so that you can use your wideband instead of your lambda sensor. I doubt its there to feed a narrowband gauge. I believe the whole point in wideband is to know *exactly* what your fuelling is, not just if its within a certain range.

Ross

 

[h2ypr]

http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/Knock_Link-LNK_KNK_LNK.asp

Here is the one the fccuk were looking at fitting. You need to feed it into some seperate knock sensors (does the cinq/sie come with knock sensors?) and then those need calibrated. Technically, you need to take it to a rollers, induce knock to set a benchmark, then adjust the settings (not done it so not sure on exact process) so that it will show normal background noise, but will highlight knock as something different.

Ross

 

[arc]

I cant disagree with your last statement, because i just havent tried it, or heard of anyone else that has. Thing is, why would they supply a WB gauge if a NB was good enough? Tbh i think the narrowband output is supposed to be used to feed the ecu, so that you can use your wideband instead of your lambda sensor. I doubt its there to feed a narrowband gauge. I believe the whole point in wideband is to know *exactly* what your fuelling is, not just if its within a certain range.

Ross

ok, forget about WB and NB for now. All an AFR gauge does is alter its display depending on its input voltage, that's it. The LC1 has two analog outputs, which can set to any voltage range you want. Whatever voltgae it outputs it is still a wideband controller, outputting a wideband reading. If you have one output set to use between 0v and 1v, and the other 0v and 5v and AFR is 14.7 you will get 0.5v from one output and 2.5v from the other.

However, you don't have to use them voltage ranges. They are just the normal ones used, because normally a wideband input on an ECU is 0-5v and narrowband is normally 0-1.

As i suspect you know, a wideband sensor will not work without a controller - as it is essentially two NB sensors in one with a bit of trickery. If you went out and bought a WB gauge kit it would include a controller, but in this case there is already a controller in the LC1. A NB gauge kit is normally just the gauge, and you are meant to connect that to your existing lambda sensor.

A simple rich/lean/stoich gauge is easier to glance at, and deduce what the mixture is like rather than looking at a number and translating. As long as the ECU knows the accurate AFR, then that is fine.

ahh, Knock Link. mate of mine had that on his scooby. it is just a display though eh. implementing a knock sensor MS is a little more involved, it gives the ECU the ability to alter ignition timing and boost levels if it detects knock.

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/knock.html

setting it up would be similar though. like i was saying about using a big tube when setting it up to detect knock and monitor what the sensor makes of it.

 

[h2ypr]

ok, forget about WB and NB for now. All an AFR gauge does is alter its display depending on its input voltage, that's it. The LC1 has two analog outputs, which can set to any voltage range you want. Whatever voltgae it outputs it is still a wideband controller, outputting a wideband reading. If you have one output set to use between 0v and 1v, and the other 0v and 5v and AFR is 14.7 you will get 0.5v from one output and 2.5v from the other.

However, you don't have to use them voltage ranges. They are just the normal ones used, because normally a wideband input on an ECU is 0-5v and narrowband is normally 0-1.

As i suspect you know, a wideband sensor will not work without a controller - as it is essentially two NB sensors in one with a bit of trickery. If you went out and bought a WB gauge kit it would include a controller, but in this case there is already a controller in the LC1. A NB gauge kit is normally just the gauge, and you are meant to connect that to your existing lambda sensor.

A simple rich/lean/stoich gauge is easier to glance at, and deduce what the mixture is like rather than looking at a number and translating. As long as the ECU knows the accurate AFR, then that is fine. .

Yeah from what your saying i understand what you mean, but i wouldnt buy a WB if all you were wanting was just a quick glance. If its for tuning purposes you want to know (esp on the turbo's) exactly so you can lean/richen the mixture. Sometimes over time cars can get richer/leaner so its good to be able to detect a difference between 12 and 11 afr etc so that you can get it corrected. Otherwise you'll be down on power/torque.

ahh, Knock Link. mate of mine had that on his scooby. it is just a display though eh. implementing a knock sensor MS is a little more involved, it gives the ECU the ability to alter ignition timing and boost levels if it detects knock.

http://megasquirt.sourceforge.net/extra/knock.html

setting it up would be similar though. like i was saying about using a big tube when setting it up to detect knock and monitor what the sensor makes of it.

Ahh. Yeah knock link uses the existing sensors, so thats why it needs to be tuned to the car. Whereas if your setting up MS anyways, then adding a knock sensor and riggin it up isnt going to be as hard....

Ross

 

[arc]

Yeah from what your saying i understand what you mean, but i wouldnt buy a WB if all you were wanting was just a quick glance. If its for tuning purposes you want to know (esp on the turbo's) exactly so you can lean/richen the mixture. Sometimes over time cars can get richer/leaner so its good to be able to detect a difference between 12 and 11 afr etc so that you can get it corrected. Otherwise you'll be down on power/torque.

it isn't just feeding the gauge though, if you are tuning the car you will have the laptop plugged into the ECU and it'll be displaying a gauge and numerical value for the AFR.

in my head, the gauge is there for when you are driving. if the engine does something weird (i had a loose wire on my coolant sensor, which cause the engine to loose most power, would only rev to 2500 at full throttle) - quick glance at the AFR gauge and it was reading megarich - which gave me an indication of the problem. also if i'm at high rpm for a while, then i'll keep check on the gauge to make sure its not running lean.

 

[h2ypr]

I can understand your point arc. The LC-1 can be plugged into the laptop, but only really useful if you have an rpm graph with it (presumably megasquirt).

At high rpm, the difference between safe and lean is usually 12 (ok) 12.5(lean). Doubt that can be detected with the narrowband gauge. Just my opinion.

Ross

 

[arc]

it's not a narrowband gauge, its an AFR gauge.

MS displays real time AFR and RPM etc, so like i said - when tuning, it's all there.

And with a gauge that has an analog needle to indicate mixture.. it is easy to tell when it comes off 'the norm'

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

anywho... lol i think i'll go for the lc-1 for now and then get the xd-16 gauge later on. Now, next question - What do people think of this for a boost controller?

http://www.envyperformance.com/inde...&Product_ID=6541&CFID=214378&CFTOKEN=59895363

Meant to be a hybrid (gauge and controller in one) but don't know if anyone has any experience with them?

If not, what would people recommend for an electronic boost controller?

Thanks again

Lenny

 

[J333EVO]

This is the AEM one you posted, looks good

TurboSmart also do them, first I'd seen like this. http://www.turbosmart.com.au/index.php?id=42

Also saw a Sard one the same on ebay some time ago in the US worked out as less than £150 then, probably not much more than £120 now with exchange rate but can't find them again.

The other idea I had was to get a Greddy Profec B and remove the clock on the Cinq and then modify the dash board to sit it in there instead of the clock as they are pretty small and rectangular.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Greddy-PRofec...ryZ72205QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

yea that would look cool with the profec-b in where the clock is, about the right size as well from the looks of it

Oh well i'll see when it comes to it, how exactly to the boost controllers work (where do they fit etc.), would i be better fitting it before i assemble all the engine and turbo and fit it in the cinq?

Thanks again

Lenny

 

[J333EVO]

They connect to the vacuum pipe that goes from turbo to wastegate, so yes easier to at least plumb in the connect when building engine as it gets very tight in there once all built.

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

yea i'll probably do that then, make things as easy as possible! So does the wastegate on the turbo need to be fully opened? so that the boost controller can control it across the full range?

Lenny

 

[h2ypr]

I have a greddy and can reccomend. Seen as one of the best controllers for holding boost.

Ross

 

[arc]

i will be using my megasquirts built in boost controller, i'd rather one unit have control over all the engine conditions.

 

[cc1]

i will be using my megasquirts built in boost controller, i'd rather one unit have control over all the engine conditions.

But you will have 2 ecu's?

 

[arc]

why

 

[cc1]

why

Sorry! got mixed up with mega,s/mf2's.

 

[gazzaman2k]

i will be using my megasquirts built in boost controller, i'd rather one unit have control over all the engine conditions.

what device do you need to do that then? dont you need the soleniod that lets the pressure out?

 

[randomizered]

Use one of the outputs to with a high power FET that directly controls the solenoid. You can buy the components in kit form to upgrade the board for about $35, so about £18 Including the solenoid! Then just configure it in MegaTune.

Kristian

 

[SlinkyCinqi]

i will be using my megasquirts built in boost controller, i'd rather one unit have control over all the engine conditions.

Use one of the outputs to with a high power FET that directly controls the solenoid. You can buy the components in kit form to upgrade the board for about $35, so about £18 Including the solenoid! Then just configure it in MegaTune.

Kristian

I didn't know that! i'm a total MS noob haha. I'll have to find out more about this off of you guys if possible, As I'd like to get the parts beforehand so that I can fit them all to the engine as I build it up, then I just need to drop it into the car and connect everything up, not worrying about fitting things as i go.

Thanks again

Lenny