Technical 1.3 multijet turbo wastegate seized!

[samsama]

I have an '08 fiat panda multijet, and every time I rev above ~2.5k, the engine managment light comes on and it goes into limp mode (sudden loss of power).

Looking around the forums, it seems that this is a common problem and that the turbo wastegate actuator is seized. I took my car to the dealership yesterday for a diagnostic and they confirmed this. They told me I needed a new turbo which would cost £1,000!

I want to try and fix it myself if it is not too difficult, but I need some pointers on what exactly I need to do. Please help! How do I unseize the wastegate?

I am not exactly sure what I am looking for; I think it's the rod under the black plastic circular cap in the image below. I have removed the airbox but I can't seem to actually find what I'm looking for.

TL;DR Turbo wastegate is stuck. How do i get it unstuck? :bang::bang::bang:

edit:
according to this thread

My multi- jet is a 56 plate to free the actuator rod look upwards close to the block and you will see the rod leaving the actuator then with a long screw driver/tyre leaver prise the rod towards the turbo it will probably move half inch max... Sorted

Can someone please explain this procedure in more detail as if I'm five years old? I don't really know my way around cars. Many thanks!

 

[Wee Smurf]

If it has seized, even if you get it unstuck and working again, chances are that it will do the same again. Cleaning isn't really a solution to this.

 

[Goudrons]

You should be able to get a long screwdriver to the wastegate arm (the rod from vaccum diaphram to the exhaust side of the turbo, the other side in your pic), work it back and forth a while, this should free it up, it's oily soot that bungs up the gate.

Failing that, get it removed and cleaned
http://www.innotecworld.com/products/sets-systems.php?productid=6

Failing that, a recon or get yours reconditioned.
Lots of places do it at a fraction of the dealers price.

 

[samsama]

Thanks guys for the input.

If it has seized, even if you get it unstuck and working again, chances are that it will do the same again. Cleaning isn't really a solution to this.

You might be right, but it's definitely worth a try before splashing out the cash! I am reluctant to completely replacing the turbo because I just had a refurb installed about a year and a half ago. I don't really want to keep replacing them every 2 years or so.

You should be able to get a long screwdriver to the wastegate arm (the rod from vaccum diaphram to the exhaust side of the turbo, the other side in your pic), work it back and forth a while, this should free it up, it's oily soot that bungs up the gate.

Failing that, get it removed and cleaned
[link removed]

Failing that, a recon or get yours reconditioned.
Lots of places do it at a fraction of the dealers price.

I'll give it a go when the rain decides to stop falling.
Sorry stupid question: is the wastegate arm accessible from the top, or do I need to jack the car up and go from underneath?

 

[Shuggie]

Remove the air cleaner box, then the turbo linkage is visible looking down from the front/top of the engine. As stated above, a long (and strong) flat bladed screwdriver can be used to move the linkage - once freed up it should be fine for a while. Quite a bit of force is needed - the spring on the linkage is surprisingly strong.

 

[Goudrons]

The arm outlined in Red is what you are trying to free off


You should be able to get at it from above, but space and access is very tight, try soaking it in something like duckoil or WD40 first.
Then you will need to lever it with a screwdriver, it should when free move around a quarter turn, so don't force it over too far, gently work it back and forth, over and over again.

In blue is the wastegate inside, this is stuck fast with soot and crud, you can see how the arm, in red again works it open and closed.


Once it's freed off and stopped overboosting and tripping limp, best defence to keep it working is the odd Italian tune up every now and then.

 

[samsama]

Just an update. I have fixed it!
Thank you all so much for the help and advice. :worship:

Quite a bit of force is needed - the spring on the linkage is surprisingly strong.

This was unfortunately very misleading and incorrect. I didn't realise "Quite a bit of force" actually meant LOADS OF ^%$£ing FORCE. In fact, so much force that I managed to bend the chrome-vanadium screwdriver I was using. Maybe I was doing something wrong hehe.

For those of you reading this in the future with the same problem, here's a quick run down on what I did:

First remove the air-filter box/engine cover assembly. To do this you'll have to undo and remove two air pipes, one of which is is screwed in with two nuts. The airbox should be easily lifted off.

Locate the wastegate actuator and drench it in WD-40. Leave it for a while. The actuator itself is located towards the top-front side of the engine block and is hidden away. The gap is very small so you won't be able to fit your hand in.

Finally use a long flat-head screwdriver to try and pry the actuator across using one of the nuts on the engine for leverage. It should move about 20mm or so. It is sprung-loaded so once you pry it in one direction it should ping back to the original position. In my case, lots and lots and lots of force was required. Be careful that you don't do what I did and end up slipping and accidentally punching the engine block.

Reassemble everything and voila!

 

[The Beard]

Having become a mechanical coward in the last 20 years I'd be grateful if you'd keep us up to speed with how you get on. I think mine also has a wastegate fault although in my case it's a lack of go below 2000 revs.

 

[Thetallchap]

Are they all like that?

 

[notsmartcars]

I find it's the actuator rod jamming in the actuator hole which is the problem too many owners owners have paid for a new turbo when all that was needed was a tyre lever

 

[ytareh]

This worked a treat for me too.Changed my Panda Multijet from a snail having only a 2700-2800rpm power band to a far more throttle responsive motor .( I did mine from underneath front of car towards the passenger side-will def need torch if anyway dusky )

EDIT This thread inspired me to go out and do a 'freshen up' on this job .Used can of WD40 type spray (Aldi/Lidl version with fluo green lid) and a long chisel .This time I removed air intake hose on the left (from above) and swung it out of the way .Drowned the hinge/pivot in spray lube .Then got under car with phone light / torch and positioned chisel over the actuator (theres a distinct length of 'thread' near it) (Goudrons top pic above shows this well ,the actuator rod -circled red in pic- has got a distinct narrow 'rib' to it that is ideal for shoving a flat head screwdriver or chisel against .Its very hard to fit anything 'round' in )Gave it a few shoves.Spring behind it is (as mentioned ) quite strong .I felt maybe 15-20mm 'travel' inwards .I swung/reached my other arm around to front crossmember to get more leverage /put more body weight behind it/a better swing at it .Test drive suggests better throttle response .By the way this improves not reduces MPG!Win-win

 

[Cman22]

So glad to read these posts. Have exactly the same limp mode symptons.
Before i find a garage and a chisel, can one of you please tell me...
1) did you position the chisel/sqrewdriver on the end og the actuator 'stick' or on the small arm on the turbo connected to the actuator?
2) will you upload a picture of the engine, and point out from where you reached the actuator?

Regards
Claus (not a mechanic

 

[ytareh]

Top pic in post #6 is the ONLY one on this thread that actually shows what you're looking for directly .

The bit in red rectangle is the important part .You need to shove the tip of your strong but not too wide screwdriver or chisel up against a (vertical?) ridge in the section in bottom left of the red rectangle ( probably to right of 'nut') .

I think I posted a bit more about it in past but basically spray with WD40 or similar spray oil ( from above -it may help to remove air intake hose -to get more oil at it -it's well hidden/recessed -but in my experience you won't MOVE it from above )Lie on back below passenger side of front bumper and look diagonally up towards centre of engine compartment .You need to get a firm 'catch' before shoving as it requires a fair bit of force .Youll feel the stiff spring pressure .Expect a good 1-2cm movement .

 

[Woolpack]

Thanks just done mine, too five minutes. now it sound great
Thanks again

 

[ytareh]

This is REALLY worth making the effort to do and takes no time at all.Today I was changing coolant so while I had gone to trouble of jacking up front of car I decided to 'freshen up ' the turbo actuator .As before lots of spray lube beforehand .This time I had removed a pipe leading into the turbo .I had stupidly mistaken it for a water hose .Now that this was loose I had better access to actuator rod .I used a long chisel .You have to align it at right angles to a kid of 'edge'/spline on actuator rod( I think you approach from top/ right of the all important pic in Goudrons post above with red outline showing bit you're looking for .
Low down throttle response gates improved even on previous .When I bought car and for first 18 months until I tried this it had the narrowest torque band ever .If your car will only get up and go between 2600 and 2800rpm you really need to do this to your Multijet .The slightest little prod on accelerator at 1900rpm in third or fourth and she's off!It improves mpg too as you labour less accelerating .Strangely even with a nob led turbo the Panda MJ will waft along well above motorway speeds .It just accelerates far better with this tweak .And may prevent some Cowboys charging you a grand for a new turbo !

By the way as Goudrons says the best preventative treatment is the Italian Tune Up ie drive the car HARD every now and then ..My 2005 Panda MJ has nearly 160k miles on the clock ( although I saw a blue one for sale today with 167k up !) I do a 130km/80 mile daily commute and generally use full acceleration in first ( and second) and/or red line the car once or twice morning and evening .I also try to use maximum braking power once a day .Failure to do these generally causes smokiness or sticky turbo actuator or brake callipers within a few days .Cars love daily use .(Some taxis run 24/7 and only stop for oil changes .I do mine every 5/6 k miles and car runs better after )

 

[Goudrons]

I think I'd written this before, but the gunk responsible for clogging wastegates, inlet manifolds and EGR's on diesels is due to the crankcase breather's oily vapour meeting the hot sooty exhaust gas.

The crankcase breather (PCV) is feed into the inlet trunking to be fed into the engine to burn.
As the engine gets a bit older, they tend to breath more heavily and fire out a bit more oily vapour.
(or you own a VAG tdi 110, they tended to pump all their oil directly into the engine from new!)

The exhaust gas meets the air/oily vapour on the inlet side due to the EGR.

The EGR will open and allow exhaust gas back into the inlet side when the engine is likely to run lean (light throttle cruise, over run etc)

When you take your foot off a modern diesel it injects no fuel (or little on a light throttle) and it just pumps air, this causes combustion temps rise and create NOx (a "greenhouse gas" I'm told!).

As the exhaust has little air in it (most has already been used) the open EGR allows exhaust back in to the inlet and as it's sans air it reduces combustion temps, thus reducing NOx emissions.
(yep, diesels aren't as clean as we were all told!)

Trouble now is the oily vapour and the exhaust gas now meet on the inlet side which is full of soot, they mix and make a lovely gunky cocktail that gets sucked back through the engine without burning properly.

Left as a gunky cocktail on the inlet side it gums everything up, now suck it through to the exhaust side and it bakes on to the turbo at anything upto 650C, so you can see why the wastegate seizes!

The regs for EGR operation have altered in the last few years (from euro 5), it is now linked to the car's PCM, so failure of the valve or attempted blanking will cause the EML to light up and a trouble code to be set, (sooner or later).

So the only real way to combat this is to reduce or restrict the oily vapour from the crankcase.
There are dedicated traps that are often fitted to heavy trucks, buses and plant, but they are fairly big bits of kit, like the ProVent one.
http://www.chiptuning.com.au/provent-style-oil-separators/

A few kits are made by the likes of Allard which work well, are a little smaller and can be modified to fit.
http://fr-rtuning-shop.co.uk/index.php?_a=product&product_id=2102

They are basically a "catch tank" but are baffled and have big enough ports (18 to 20mm) to handle a diesels breathing rather than the cheap, empty, small ported, ebay catch tanks that are available to bling up the engine bay.

I've used an Allard one on an old Disco and then moved it to an X Type.
It does certainly work and kept the inlet, EGR and turbo trouble free.

 

[Prontissimo]

The steel wastegate actuator rod gets moved by high boost pressure (welly) and bears directly in the cast iron body of the turbo. It needs to be moved now and then to stop corrosion and crud build up making it stiff or even seized. If granny has been driving and never over boosts turbo ......it seizes or stiffens up. What can happen on a vehicle with a stiff actuator rod is someone at last gives it some welly and the wastegate opens but is reluctant to close on deceleration because the rod is stiff in the housing and ALSO BECAUSE EXHAUST GASES ARE PUSHING IT OPEN! After your successful wind up and wellying when you press the accelerator again you get very little power because there is nil boost because wastegate valve is open. The solution is to cycle the actuator rod either mechanically with a lever and judicious use of plus gas or WD40 ( which will only work on a cold exhaust!) .....or by running up to full boost and getting the valve open and then turning engine off so wastegate can creep back into its seat. Then restart and repeat. Cycling it a few times clears it with luck.

 

[Tony16]

I'd like to thank all the posters on this thread. I bought a panda Multijet for my daughter 3 years ago. Its been dropping into limp mode at odd times and been getting worse since. I've had various sensors swapped but to no avail. I went into google and this thread came up. Sure enough a tin of WD40 and a long thin chisel and "Bob's your uncle" Its pulling like a sports car. As a footnote, going on the idea that the shaft has dried out of lubricant and my experience as a heating engineer. I often come across boiler fans that the sealed bearings have seized on. WD40 will get into the sealed bearing and the boiler will run ok for a week or so until it evaporates away and tightens up again. I hit on the idea of first using WD40 to get it moving freely but then give it a dose of motorbike chain lube. I've got boiler fans still running after 5 years so far. The chain lube at first has a very thin viscosity to get past the rubber "O" rings. Then it foams up keeping the lube in place. It doesn't react with rubber and can stand a high temp. So I gave a blast of this to finish off.


So again thanks a lot all.

 

[Prontissimo]

.....just like any other mechanical linkage the wastegate needs cycling to keep it free . These cars are attractive to careful ( light footed) drivers who never load up the turbo properly which moves the wastegate linkage so that gets stiff and/or seized.......so either encourage your daughter to get heavy with the right foot now and then ....or go for a blat yourself!

 

[Prontissimo]

Probably not a good idea to use any grease or chain lube on the actuator arm. It bears directly in the cast metal housing which because it's part of the turbo gets very hot. Any grease will bake on and cause problems. Both aluminium and cast iron have natural lubricating properties . The arms bear directly in the castings and just need to be moved to keep them free ......so rev the little thing now and then.....it'll heat up the DPF too and help to burn off any crap in the exhaust and clean out the exhaust ports. These are sports car engines really ......very sophisticated with potential high power outputs.......I was really surprised at the mismatch between the cars look and usual driver profile and the way the cars shift and handle. They're little racing go karts really. I'm surprised there isn't a panda multijet racing group!!!!!