Technical Fiat Ducato 1989 diesel cranks but no start

[rauku]

Hi,

I have recently got a 1989 model Fiat Ducato 2.5 TD Engine model:8144.21 LHD and it had been running well for a few months until a couple of days ago. I was parking up hill and the engine suddenly shut off and I haven't been able to start it again. Before this incident, the engine was very reliable and almost instantly starting after cranking with the starter motor.

The troubleshooting I have done so far:

• I noticed the fuel filter water sensor cable was broken. I had drained the water not too long ago. Probably the previous time I filled the fuel tank. I drained the filter and also added 10 litres of diesel to the tank as it was almost quarter full. But this didn't do any change.
• I watched the timing belt while cranking and it looked like turning so I guess it is still functional (didn't open the whole belt cover though).
• I checked the fuel lines if any loose or broken parts, look all in place.
• I opened the air filter case and removed and tried to run without to see if it was the bottleneck, but no luck.
• I saw a bit of oil leak around the oil pump. I checked the oil level, it was near max level.

Is there anyone out there who can advise what else I can do to troubleshoot the issue? I am trying to fix myself if possible. Any help would be highly appreciated.


Many thanks,

Lev

 

[bugsymike]

Hi,

I have recently got a 1989 model Fiat Ducato 2.5 TD Engine model:8144.21 LHD and it had been running well for a few months until a couple of days ago. I was parking up hill and the engine suddenly shut off and I haven't been able to start it again. Before this incident, the engine was very reliable and almost instantly starting after cranking with the starter motor.

The troubleshooting I have done so far:

• I noticed the fuel filter water sensor cable was broken. I had drained the water not too long ago. Probably the previous time I filled the fuel tank. I drained the filter and also added 10 litres of diesel to the tank as it was almost quarter full. But this didn't do any change.
• I watched the timing belt while cranking and it looked like turning so I guess it is still functional (didn't open the whole belt cover though).
• I checked the fuel lines if any loose or broken parts, look all in place.
• I opened the air filter case and removed and tried to run without to see if it was the bottleneck, but no luck.
• I saw a bit of oil leak around the oil pump. I checked the oil level, it was near max level.

Is there anyone out there who can advise what else I can do to troubleshoot the issue? I am trying to fix myself if possible. Any help would be highly appreciated.


Many thanks,

Lev

I am more familiar with the later version of the Sofim engines, the 8140 series.
I have the basic Technical Data re torques and settings etc. on the 8144.21 and 8144.61.
Assuming you have, compression, timing and correct fuel engine generally should run.
So if cam belt in place and not slipped and engine ran the day before, then that and compression should be OK.
So fuel is the next thing to look at.
The easiest thing to do is slacken one of the injector pipes and check for diesel dripping out as you get someone to crank the engine over.
Don't put your finger over it as it can be high pressure!!!
I expect that this will confirm no diesel dripping out.
If that is the case then look at the injector pump on the engine at what ever shuts the engine off when you switch off the ignition.
The Bosch type pumps usually have a solenoid valve with a wire to it. This can be checked for 12volts using a multimeter when ignition on. In simply terms , no volts no go!
They can also fail internally, though usually if you rest your hand on it , or listen closely when some turns ignition on, you will hear/feel a slight click.
It is possible you have a Lucas/CAV injector pump, which is less common, so I know less about it. Although the principle is the same in so much as there has to be some way to stop fuel going to the pump to kill the engine. Early engines used a cable to pull a stop lever, unlikely on yours but if so check the mechanical operation of it. It must be able to move fully in both directions freely to give the on/off action.
Let us know how you get on and also if still not running give further details.

 

[Communicator]

Many years ago had a diesel engine start and run when precisely timed on the wrong stroke, Ran rather hot, and performance was abysmal. I was surprised when the source of the problem was discovered, as I had not thought that it would start.

I will not repeat @bugsymike 's excellent suggestions, and his practical experience is far greater than mine. Given my previous experience and the sudden onset of the problem I suggest eliminating possible problems with the stop solenoid first. Is there any possibility of a wider electrical problem?

As an anecdote may I mention a past experience with the lever operated stop valve on the injector pump. On one occasion on attempting to stop the engine, I was left with the pull wire stop knob in my hand. At least I knew where the stop lever was on the injection pump.

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks @Communicator for the undeserved praise, what little I knew in the past seems to diminish as my feet get nearer to the grave.

 

[rauku]

Thanks so much everyone for the suggestions! At last yesterday I got a chance to look at the fuel stop selenoid and there I found the issue; the electric cable connection was broken! I rewired it and it got back to normal.
By the way I found the selenoid under this part as seen in the picture as a reference for others for this engine model: 8144.21.

 

[bugsymike]

Glad you are mobile again and nothing to drastic, it appears to be a Bosch pump like the later 8140. series.

 

[Communicator]

Somtimes we even get things right. Pleased to learn of your success