hi all just looking to see if anyone has any info regarding the handbrake mechanism on the ducato motorhome, all i have is the bits but unsure how they all fit , will post some pictures shortly, there was a threaded bar on rear axle which can see in pictures but was bent so purchased new threaded bar
General 1989 fiat ducato handbrake mechanism
- Thread starter tomj25
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General 1989 fiat ducato handbrake mechanism
Photos may help to see which bit you mean. I understand some Motor homes use different axles and brakes from original Fiat etc.
sorry wouldn't let me load pictures,,, so 1st picture is the cable coming from rear drums and connected to the long bar , just cant figure out how it connects to the bits in 2nd picture, ive took the bar back off to show it in pics,, 3rd pic is the threaded bar that was on the axle when i first got the van it was bent in every direction so ive bought a new one to replace it again not sure how or where it is supposed to connect to
Only guessing without seeing any photos, generally if two covered cables coming from brake drums they have to have a central point on chassis for the outers to be secured to, then the inner cables have to be secured to a "balance bar" with three holes , two outers for the cables and the centre hole is where the threaded bar goes through to be adjusted.
That is the basic layout for many handbrake systems , but photos would help.
Looking at all the photos including the rusty axle, to me it looks like three different handbrake systems.
1\The rusty axle I am guessing had open wire cables running across the axle which were connected to the single damaged handbrake cable coming through the centre of the axle.
2\The original left hand photo appears to shoe a horse shoe type balance bar that is usually used with a long single handbrake cable that is connected to both rear drums, is secured on the chassis but it's centre "bare " part runs through the horse shoe to balance/compensate rear brakes.
3\In the second photo of new parts the right hand part with the two hooked ends to me would be for a system using two separate handbrake cables , one from each drum then hooked over that balance bar. I see it also shoes two L shaped brackets which I would guess are bolted to the chassis so the outer part of each cable is held whilst the inner is then hooked on the the balance bar.
I see it also shows a slotted bracket which to me is usually bolted to the chassis as a pivot point where a lever is used in the system and needs to have a guide.
Either way with all the parts there appears to be a mixture of set ups.
Was there any clues from the old original pieces?
1\The rusty axle I am guessing had open wire cables running across the axle which were connected to the single damaged handbrake cable coming through the centre of the axle.
2\The original left hand photo appears to shoe a horse shoe type balance bar that is usually used with a long single handbrake cable that is connected to both rear drums, is secured on the chassis but it's centre "bare " part runs through the horse shoe to balance/compensate rear brakes.
3\In the second photo of new parts the right hand part with the two hooked ends to me would be for a system using two separate handbrake cables , one from each drum then hooked over that balance bar. I see it also shoes two L shaped brackets which I would guess are bolted to the chassis so the outer part of each cable is held whilst the inner is then hooked on the the balance bar.
I see it also shows a slotted bracket which to me is usually bolted to the chassis as a pivot point where a lever is used in the system and needs to have a guide.
Either way with all the parts there appears to be a mixture of set ups.
Was there any clues from the old original pieces?
no everything was stripped off when purchased van so have no reference to how it should all fit,, ive Googled it but cant find anything, i thought cable would be ok to use as couldnt see any damage on it , ive been doing it up slowly which is why axle is off ready for sandblast
Do you think it is an AL-KO rear axle if so you may be able to identify it from AL-KO website from an axle plate or the Motorhome details.
The axle does look quite bad you may be able to get a good S/H one as they do seem to advertise them, plus it may be possible to get it complete with cables/brakes and wheels etc.
Another suggestion is some trailer companies have a good selection of handbrake cables.
So are you happy the front ends of the one piece handbrake cable as fitted in your photo are in their original positions and secured so they line up with the horse shoe /compensator in a direct line of the threaded bar, so that if you pulled on it, the rear brakes would easily activate?
If so I would support it in that position and then roughly offer up the threaded bar to see if it lines up with the front end of the handbrake mechanism.
By the way with the weight of a long threaded bar you often find a support guide is positioned for that threaded bar to slide through to carry some of it's weight whilst still keeping it in the correct position, otherwise it's weight can cause the handbrake to drag on when released.
I also put plenty of grease in the horse shoe where the bare cable slides around.
If so I would support it in that position and then roughly offer up the threaded bar to see if it lines up with the front end of the handbrake mechanism.
By the way with the weight of a long threaded bar you often find a support guide is positioned for that threaded bar to slide through to carry some of it's weight whilst still keeping it in the correct position, otherwise it's weight can cause the handbrake to drag on when released.
I also put plenty of grease in the horse shoe where the bare cable slides around.
Communicator
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In comparison to @bugsymike, I am a relative novice where handbrakes are concerned, but I have had experience of several different vehicles.
I agree with the parts from 3 different systems, as there appear to be 3 different bridles, one attached to the old cables on the axle, a second horseshoe on the longitudinal rod, and the third being the plate with notches on either end.
The angle section with the long slot is probably a support for the above rod. There appears to be a hexagon nut welded to the angle. If this nut has been bored out, it is probably intended as a bush for the rod. Presumably there will be a suitable hole in the chassis, to bolt other end of the angle to.
The two angle brackets may be intended to accept the inboard outer parts of the Bowden cables. (A requirment mentioned by bugsymike.) However where are the slots to allow brackets to be slipped over the inner cables?
This leaves the rod attached to the rear axle, which seems too light to be part of the supension. Is it possible that this rod is not part of the handrake system, but perhaps part of a load compenator mechanism for the rear hydraulic brakes?
I agree with the parts from 3 different systems, as there appear to be 3 different bridles, one attached to the old cables on the axle, a second horseshoe on the longitudinal rod, and the third being the plate with notches on either end.
The angle section with the long slot is probably a support for the above rod. There appears to be a hexagon nut welded to the angle. If this nut has been bored out, it is probably intended as a bush for the rod. Presumably there will be a suitable hole in the chassis, to bolt other end of the angle to.
The two angle brackets may be intended to accept the inboard outer parts of the Bowden cables. (A requirment mentioned by bugsymike.) However where are the slots to allow brackets to be slipped over the inner cables?
This leaves the rod attached to the rear axle, which seems too light to be part of the supension. Is it possible that this rod is not part of the handrake system, but perhaps part of a load compenator mechanism for the rear hydraulic brakes?
On looking at the cleaned up version of the rear axle I agree with @Communicator regarding the centre rod type thing on the rusted axle, there is such a variety of handbrake cable versions and from a quick look at the the rusted one to me it appeared to pass below the beam, but on the cleaned up version fitted that couldn't be the case (maybe I should have gone to specsavers ), regarding the aftermarket type brackets it may depend what type of cable/s fitted, if it was a one piece cable going around the horse shoe compensator then without a slot they couldn't be used, but if it is two separate cables the eyes could pass through leaving the outer cables held in the hole in the L brackets.
This would of course cause a problem when trying to use the horse shoe type currently fitted to the threaded bar in the photos.
Perhaps @tomj25 could confirm how the outer part of the front end of the handbrake cables are secured, from my view of the fitted parts it looks to me that there is a outer cable secured with a shiny bolt at the back plate, but the routing towards where it comes out of the holes in the chassis plate don't look to match the direction forward?
So two things.
1\ Am I correct it is a one piece cable that fits two both brake assemblies presumably like the original?
2\ How is the front ends of the outer cables fitted, are they in their original bolt holes and if so would that be where those two L shaped brackets are used?
At the end of the day was the handbrake cable/s supplied with the fitting kit of brackets from the same people, as it looks to be for different systems.
), regarding the aftermarket type brackets it may depend what type of cable/s fitted, if it was a one piece cable going around the horse shoe compensator then without a slot they couldn't be used, but if it is two separate cables the eyes could pass through leaving the outer cables held in the hole in the L brackets.This would of course cause a problem when trying to use the horse shoe type currently fitted to the threaded bar in the photos.
Perhaps @tomj25 could confirm how the outer part of the front end of the handbrake cables are secured, from my view of the fitted parts it looks to me that there is a outer cable secured with a shiny bolt at the back plate, but the routing towards where it comes out of the holes in the chassis plate don't look to match the direction forward?
So two things.
1\ Am I correct it is a one piece cable that fits two both brake assemblies presumably like the original?
2\ How is the front ends of the outer cables fitted, are they in their original bolt holes and if so would that be where those two L shaped brackets are used?
At the end of the day was the handbrake cable/s supplied with the fitting kit of brackets from the same people, as it looks to be for different systems.
Just a thought are the rear sections each side the same length of outer cable, it may just be the angle of the photo but the flow of the cable on the o/s? looks nicer where it comes through the cross member towards the horse shoe/compensator.
On the second photo, as you say where the front part of the handbrake from the lever comes out, is that where the slotted part from the earlier photos comes into play in that bracket arrangement in the right hand photo to the right of the cable hole, or is it for something else?
On the second photo, as you say where the front part of the handbrake from the lever comes out, is that where the slotted part from the earlier photos comes into play in that bracket arrangement in the right hand photo to the right of the cable hole, or is it for something else?
