General 2010 Fiat Panda - Parts recommendation

[koalar]

Start at the end

P0115 is a very comon

Normally not the temperature sensor but the thermostat. The quick test is to place your hand on radiator top hose and start the engine from cold. It should remain cold for a couple of minuites


Explination here https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/common-problem-with-thermostate.465356/#post-4666176

 

[JoleePando]

Start at the end

P0115 is a very comon

Normally not the temperature sensor but the thermostat. The quick test is to place your hand on radiator top hose and start the engine from cold. It should remain cold for a couple of minuites

Unsure if that code is an old code or not. It's not something I'd noticed myself with the car. That part seems to be okay though when I checked earlier.

It was more P0300 and P0302 which seemed concerning to me as I'd just had the spark plugs changed and the lack of power when trying to gain speed was extremely noticeable.

 

[koalar]

Misfire cylinder 2

2010 so should have 4 identical leads

I'd swap cylinder 2 spark plug over for one of the others

Take it for a drive and reread the code

If it moves it's the spark plug if it's still misfires on cylinder 2 swap the leads over and retest

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

P0300 - misfire detected

P0302 - misfire detected on cyl 2

Could be a faulty plug but more likely to be HT leads so I'd start by looking at them - try running the engine somewhere very dark and look for sparks jumping. Also listen for a clicking/snapping noise - a spark jumping to earth somewhere will make this sort of noise. No 2 cylinder is the second one in from the driver's side.

P0115 - Invalid signal. Probably a poor connection on the sensor connection or maybe the sensor has failed. I don't think our age of vehicle has an ECU involved in this circuit? If I'm right you should find that there's only one wire (single core that is) to the temp sensor and if you earth this connector to somewhere like the engine block or battery neg terminal then the temp guage will show max (red hot). However before you try that can anyone confirm that there's no ecu in this circuit?

Worth remembering that I'm a motor mechanic and not an electronics technician, so the above advice is what I'd be trying but I have been known to be expensively wrong!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

koalar. Would a failed thermostat throw up a fault code of invalid signal? would it just not see it as a problem because a failed thermostat would still allow the temp sensor to output a signal which was in the expected range? Of course the engine would run rich but the sensor wouldn't know that although you might get other mixture related codes being posted - like O2 sensor signal etc?

 

[koalar]

koalar. Would a failed thermostat throw up a fault code of invalid signal? would it just not see it as a problem because a failed thermostat would still allow the temp sensor to output a signal which was in the expected range? Of course the engine would run rich but the sensor wouldn't know that although you might get other mixture related codes being posted - like O2 sensor signal etc?

Yes

Temperature goes above 60 Celsius
Engine still running
Coast fast down a slope with little or no engine load because the rubber seal is missing from the thermostat the temperature fall below 60 Celsius

ECU detects this as not normal and puts the radiator fans on max and puts the engine light on, code P0115 Because the fans are on the temperature gauge will continue to drop

The light resets if the car is left to rest, and only come back on if the right parameters are again meet.


The test is to but you hand on the top hose, if the rubber seal is missing warm coolant will be felt at the bottom of the hose as soon as you start the car

Very common a few years ago, most seem to have been changed by now

2010 will be the new type thermostat which had the plastic spigot that broke off, so most get replaced before the rubber seal disintegrates

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Yes

Temperature goes above 60 Celsius
Engine still running
Coast fast down a slope with little or no engine load because the rubber seal is missing from the thermostat the temperature fall below 60 Celsius

ECU detects this as not normal and puts the radiator fans on max and puts the engine light on, code P0115 Because the fans are on the temperature gauge will continue to drop

The light resets if the car is left to rest, and only come back on if the right parameters are again meet.


The test is to but you hand on the top hose, if the rubber seal is missing warm coolant will be felt at the bottom of the hose as soon as you start the car

Very common a few years ago, most seem to have been changed by now

2010 will be the new type thermostat which had the plastic spigot that broke off, so most get replaced before the rubber seal disintegrates

Good way to check for thermostat operation yes.

My 2010 non VVT 1.2 dynamic eco (or is it eco dynamic?) has the old type thermostat with the heater hose coming off a separate pipe on the head. My boy's 2014 VVT Punto has the newer design with the heater pipe coming off the thermostat housing - which leads me to think it's the newer VVT engines which have the thermostat with the plastic pipe which is so well known for breaking?

 

[koalar]

There's at least 7 different variations of the 1.2

More if you include dualogic, 4x4 and lpg

EURO 3 versions
EURO 4 versions
EURO 4 Ecopack versions (extended gearbox ratios)
ECO versions less mpg/emissions
Since 09/2009
EURO 5 versions
From 01/2010

No idea exactly what's all the differences are or when, it does not seem consistent either as I have seen a 09 with the single coil block and later thermostat

There 3 different ways to time the engine;

I can't even figure out which have the seperate expantion tank

I have seen it writen that aircon have the seperate expantion tank. My has aircon yet has combined radiator so that not cut and dried

 

[jrkitching]

I have seen it written that aircon have the separate expansion tank. My has aircon yet has combined radiator so that not cut and dried

So does my 2010 Euro 4 1.2 Panda.

 

[portland_bill]

I think the early models with aircon all had the separate expansion tank, but later ones used the 'standard' radiator, with the integral tank.
However, the aircon rad with integral tank, may be larger than the non-aircon, although if so, the larger rad may have then been used for all models. Whatever is fitted, is correct for your car, and should be replaced like-for-like if necessary.

 

[koalar]

Any update @JoleePando

 

[DaveMcT]

I think the early models with aircon all had the separate expansion tank, but later ones used the 'standard' radiator, with the integral tank.
However, the aircon rad with integral tank, may be larger than the non-aircon, although if so, the larger rad may have then been used for all models. Whatever is fitted, is correct for your car, and should be replaced like-for-like if necessary.

Our 2007 Dynamic has aircon and the integral radiator/expansion tank. The separate tank is far better as you can easily see the coolant level.

If I was changing the radiator I would get the type that uses the separate expansion tank (and a tank of course). 100HP and diesel have same size rads with slightly different bottom hose elbows. The integral tank radiator has a smaller cooling core as the header assembly takes up space.

Mutijet rad - note expansion hose stub pipe at bottom right above the main inlet stub

NISSENS Coolant Radiator 617847 for FIAT PANDA (2004) 1.3 JTD MULTIJET etc | eBay

Part Number: 617847. Nissens radiators are submitted to corrosion, vibration, pressure impulse, thermal expansion and thermal performance tests.

www.ebay.co.uk

Integral radiator - The core does look smaller but overall width is the same. Confirmed by 100HP, 1.2 Dynamic and Diesel all having the same radiator support frame.

NISSENS Coolant Radiator 617845 for FIAT PANDA (2004) 1.2 etc | eBay

Part Number: 617845. Nissens radiators are submitted to corrosion, vibration, pressure impulse, thermal expansion and thermal performance tests. Features and further details. 51729379 | 46798741 | 51773191 | K51729379 | 51773190.

www.ebay.co.uk

Header tank/bottle

FIAT PANDA 169 2003-2013 RADIATOR COOLANT EXPANSION HEADER TANK BOTTLE & CAP | eBay

Roof Rails. PANDA MK 2 HATCH (169). Ignition Coil. EXPANSION TANK SUITABLE FOR These are NOT cheap EXPANSION TANKS, they are built to LAST! Compare our image with others and you will see the DIFFERENCE.

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[The Panda Nut]

Tyres? why not use a tyre specialist?

Black circles.com look good although I have nver yet tried them.

 

[The Panda Nut]

It's more due to the hastle for faulty parts being supplied wrong parts by the customer and having a disassembled car on the ramp

And possible insurance issues

I hadnt thought of this faulty part thing, but its not so uncommon. My daughters car had a new rear caliper fitted by a garage last year. It was faulty when delivered. They spent a day (2 men) trying to make it work before realising it was a faulty part not a bleeding issue. They stuck to the quoted price or £145 so have earned my respect for being honest. Im glad I didnt supply that part, If supplying parts stick to OEM or manufacturer would be my way. I think I have recommended them in the garages section (Brookside Motors Manchester0

 

[DaveMcT]

Quote - If supplying parts stick to OEM or manufacturer would be my way.

This is really not an option on Panda parts. Shop-4-Parts, who have OEM at lower than dealer prices, don't even list brake calipers.

Clutch master cylinder with pipe pre-filled with fluid - Fiat Retail - £191.16. S4P - £138.12 excl. VAT (about £30 less). A Borg and Beck cast zinc alloy master cylinder is around £55 and easier to fit as you don't have to run the pipe around the car or fight with the corroded pipe connector.

I use S4P a lot and will pay a bit more to get good brands like Magneti-Marelli and LuK, but they do have some blind spots. Their purchasing policy makes some parts just too expensive.

 

[JoleePando]

Any update @JoleePando

Hey there, meant to get back earlier about things.

Last update was me posting the outcome from using ECU. After that I changed the ignition leads and one of the coils (only had one in stock at the time so I took it).

As if by magic, the car started running a helluva lot better and actually feeling like it could pull itself forward, rather than always pushing back like it was a horse being forced into a box. It does still lose a bit of acceleration when on the motorway and clibming a slight gradient, though I believe it's the other coil which need replaced and then we'll be good to go.

With the crash bar and bumper, I've got a replacement for both and just waiting for a day to get them fitted.

Edit: I meant to add, I've done a couple of big journeys now and each time (bar the loss of power on gradients) the car has been perfect. Still a bit bumpy and loud, though to be honest, coming from an Audi A3 to this, it's to be expected - haha!

 

[JoleePando]

Now the mechanical parts are almost entirely fixed (I hope), I'm on to the easier parts.

Car mats and something to organise that small boot. Anyone got any recommendations? I did have a big canvas crate for the back of my last car, but with this boot being significantly smaller, I want to get something that'll tie/stick to the sides so I can have the floor space at the bottom of the boot mostly free.

 

[koalar]

Sorry not something I can recomend as as dont use one, I just throw everything into kit bags

A Google search for

Fiat Panda boot protector
Fiat Panda boot liner
Or
Fiat Panda boot tray

Comes up with quite a few different options, but not quite what you are asking for, but some do bespoke liners


It would be a trivial task for someone who alters clothes to make a bespoke one for you, no idea on cost

 

[JoleePando]

Update on the car:
Replaced the coils and everything is running as it should.

And then the handbrake cable dropped, caught on a big rock or something, and snapped when I was parking up in a farmyard - haha!

It's only on the passenger side, but do people recommend replacing both sides?

Anyone know of a good garage in Edinburgh that'd do this with either supplied parts, or one that's not too expensive?

 

[koalar]

Update on the car:
Replaced the coils and everything is running as it should.

And then the handbrake cable dropped, caught on a big rock or something, and snapped when I was parking up in a farmyard - haha!

It's only on the passenger side, but do people recommend replacing both sides?

That's a difficult one to answer

I have done it both ways, I bought two cheap cables from euro car parts there lengths went exact so the balance bar at back of the handbrake was alway at more of an angle than I would like

I have also replaced just one supplies by CES no longer in Crewe with no problem and that lasted for several years

I assume yous car is drums and shoes
The drum has to come off to fit the cable, it's a good time to assess the condition of the Adjuster, springs, cylinders, drum and shoes. It's pointless to fit the cable only to revisit the job shortly afterwards, has this already been done there was mention at the begining of the thread

If it's only the cable and the drums aren't badly worn. It's a very easy job, Although you do have to have the car in the air,

Anyone know of a good garage in Edinburgh that'd do this with either supplied parts, or one that's not too expensive?

Sorry I only know local garages to me

You can zoom in on this map

Garages

www.fiatforum.com

But unfortunately out of the 19 garages none are very close