Technical Fiat Panda 169 "Knocking"

[dumcykar]

Hello,

My OBD II was throwing errors for cylinders 2 and 3, and there was a fuel smell in the cabin, so I decided to first change the spark plugs, then the cables, and after that the coil. However, I still had the error codes for cylinders 2 and 3 (misfire 2, misfire 3).

After that, I bought a tool for cleaning injectors, and after cleaning all the injectors and sealing the hole(see image) where the hose connects to the air filter housing (someone punctured a hole), it no longer threw an error for cylinder 3 nor did it smell in the cabin anymore. But a new problem emerged, a knocking sound on the right side of the engine. When I turn off the engine and start it again, there's no problem, even when I drive it slowly on shorter trips, but when I accelerate and drive it longer (around 10-15 minutes), I hear an additional knocking/tapping sound.

Does anyone know what this could be?

 

[koalar]

Is it like a hammer hitting metal

A video would be good

Can you hear under the bonnet or only while driving

Does it alter if you dip the clutch

Is it regular repeating sound or constant

 

[dumcykar]

Is it like a hammer hitting metal

A video would be good

Can you hear under the bonnet or only while driving

Does it alter if you dip the clutch

Is it regular repeating sound or constant

So, when I drive it now, there's no problem, but when I drive it faster at 100km/h, there's no sound, but when it's idling, there's a knocking sound both inside the car and in the engine (you can see where I hear it in the picture). I get these errors on OBD II, could you maybe know what's going on?

OBD II errors:

Car Scanner ELM OBD2
Version: 1.105.4/401054/GP
DTC report
Connection profile: Fiat OBD-II / EOBDDate: 3/30/2024 9:01:28 AM
============================
OBD-IIOBD-II
DTCs: 4
----------------------------
P0300 [0x0300]
Random/multiple cylinder(s) - misfire detected
Status: Confirmed
----------------------------
P0302 [0x0302]
Cylinder 2 - misfire detected
Status: Confirmed
----------------------------
P0011 [0x0011]
Camshaft position (CMP), intake/left/front, bank 1 - timing over-advanced/system performance
Status: Confirmed
----------------------------
P0009 [0x0009]
Engine position system, bank 2 - engine performance
Status: Test is inhibited by other DTC, Validated and stored in non volatile memory

 

[koalar]

Is it the 1.2 69hp

 

[dumcykar]

Is it the 1.2 69hp

Yes! 8V

 

[koalar]

Pull the solenoid out and check it's not blocked

 

[koalar]

Just one bolt

The bottom gauze

And located here

 

[dumcykar]

Just one bolt

The bottom gauze

View attachment 442830
And located here

View attachment 442831

Oh... I bought the car 10 days before and look at this image. Think the oil hasn't been changed very often. I will remove the solenoid during the day and send a picture. Is that the solenoid in the picture?

 

[koalar]

Oh... I bought the car 10 days before and look at this image. Think the oil hasn't been changed very often. I will remove the solenoid during the day and send a picture. Is that the solenoid in the picture?

Yes that's the solenoid, leave the wire connected, alcohol, meths, brake cleaner, petrol and a tooth brush.

Unfortunately looking at the state inside the valve cover you are going to have a P0011crop up from time to time as the crud circulates around the system and finds it's way to the VVT solenoid

It's annoying as it then limits the power

If you have something like a Bluetooth elm and an android phone you can clear the code to get you home, it does not normally come back untill you rev over 3000

I suspect it's also over heated or it's got some piston blow by

Do you have a compression tester or a friendly garage you can ask

 

[Yolanda]

After trying all the above I would do an engine flush using a reputable brand and new oil and filter. The misfire could be a sticking valve .

 

[dumcykar]

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After trying all the above I would do an engine flush using a reputable brand and new oil and filter. The misfire could be a sticking valve .

I will buy an engine cleaning fluid and then I will pour in new oil with a new filter and clean the solenoid because now when I drive it slowly I have no problems. Which engine oil should I pour? 10W40?

 

[koalar]

The Oil passages on the 69HP are very small, plus it's used to control the variator

5W/40 semi synthetic is the cheapest that will work reliably

I have tried the cheaper 10W/40 it does work, but it would trip an occasional code on the motorway

Not quite sure why as they should be both 40W when hot, who knows, the older engines would run on pretty much anything that's clean, these are a little fussier at least that what I found with mine

 

[dumcykar]

The Oil passages on the 69HP are very small, plus it's used to control the variator

5W/40 semi synthetic is the cheapest that will work reliably

I have tried the cheaper 10W/40 it does work, but it would trip an occasional code on the motorway

Not quite sure why as they should be both 40W when hot, who knows, the older engines would run on pretty much anything that's clean, these are a little fussier at least that what I found with mine

Some people wrote to use 5W40, some 5W30, and some 10W40... I want to use the best for this engine.

 

[koalar]

5W/30 or 5W/40 both fine and have been recommend by Fiat, if you have the owners manual it should say for your year

I would use which ever is cheapest, and change it slightly more frequently,

The amount of black sludge, probably points to a lack of service at some time,

It will probably contaminate you new oil the first few oil changes, no point in wasting money for no gain

I'd go for the 5W/40:as it will leak less on an engine of this age

 

[dumcykar]

5W/30 or 5W/40 both fine and have been recommend by Fiat, if you have the owners manual it should say for your year

I would use which ever is cheapest, and change it slightly more frequently,

The amount of black sludge, probably points to a lack of service at some time,

It will probably contaminate you new oil the first few oil changes, no point in wasting money for no gain

I'd go for the 5W/40:as it will leak less on an engine of this age

I'll buy 5W40, and engine cleaning fluid.

 

[vexorg]

Just one bolt

The bottom gauze

View attachment 442830

Where is that gauze in the engine? on the camshaft?

 

[dumcykar]

This is the next "problem" with my Panda... The sound only occurs when I shift to a higher speed at lower RPMs. Here, I drive approximately 30km/h in 3rd gear, and that's where I release and then apply the gas. Does anyone know what that could be?

 

[koalar]

Where is that gauze in the engine? on the camshaft?

On the solenoid itself , only applies to the 69HP

2 minutes, leave the wire connected, undo the bolt, turn it over, spray and brush, bolt it back in

Every time I take a head off these 69HP engines a few days or weeks later it blocks as the gunk gets disturbed

The top Gauze is always fine, it's always the bottom quarter

Pretty easy fix but annoying, car runs but down on power and may stall at junctions

It may need cleaning a second time latter

Always been P0011 so far for me

Some of the oil galleries on the 69HP run across the top of the valve cover, if you replace the gasket, you will also need a new set of o rings, same if you change the cambelt using the proper locking tool

The 69hp needs regular oil and filter changes

 

[koalar]

This is the next "problem" with my Panda... The sound only occurs when I shift to a higher speed at lower RPMs. Here, I drive approximately 30km/h in 3rd gear, and that's where I release and then apply the gas. Does anyone know what that could be?

Have look at your exhaust bracket at the front

 

[Yolanda]

Also remove the drive belt or fan belt as some still call it then do the test again, but I think koalar is on the right track.
I had a ford Cortina many years ago and that developed a similar noise it turned out to be the springs in the clutch plate that was loose.