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Ragamuffin is nice and I have seen it, but it's not as nice as 8c red 
General Your new job
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General Your new job
It's a massive problem for Fiat to be honest. Once you have a certain reputation then it is incredibly hard to shake off.
Slightly OT, but here's a link from the Which? regarding the new Panda at Frankfurt. Once again there's the typical reference to Fiat's poor build quality and poor reliability (around half way through), yet the Panda and 500 have proven to be really reliable.
http://www.which.co.uk/cars/coming-soon/fiat-panda
According to this link the Fiat brand has 1 out of 5 stars for reliability in the Which? survey for 2011. Of course these sort of things need to be taken with a pinch of salt, but yet again the brand is looked on in a poor light. If I was part of Fiat's management I'd be incredibly p***** off with that!
Back to Maxi's post - I agree with what he's saying; the only thing I would add is that they need to improve the interior plastics. All very well pinching bits from the Panda, but if you are going to charge a premium for the 500 then it should have better stuff.
OP
OP
That's why Which fridge? and WHAT?!?!?!?!/!?!?! CAR? Should be ignored even more than Auto Express.
They have no freaking idea what they're talking about. Here's some dopey cow ****ting her car into a kerb to prove that snow and ice are indeed as slippery as you thought they were -> http://www.which.co.uk/cars/driving/driving-advice/driving-in-snow/snow-socks-quick-test/. A simple straight line braking test with two identical cars on a track would have illustrated the point so much better.
This sort of amateur automotive journalism hurts the industry by not being properly thought out.
http://conversation.which.co.uk/transport-travel/winter-tyres-not-worth-the-money/
You don't need to be a rocket powered brain surgeon to realise that he's never tried winter tyres. It's one thing to be on a forum saying "I've never tried winter tyres but I've never got stuck and I don't think we need them" and being a motoring "journalist" and saying that they're a waste of money when you've never even tried them yourself
I don't think I even need to point out everything that is wrong with those two badly thought out paragraphs.
I guess I could have just said that Which? is **** and I wouldn't wipe my bum with it. But I prefer having a bit of a rant......
ftp://ftp.hp.com/pub/softlib/software12/COL31041/mp-88604-2/OJP8500vA909_Full_14.exe
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I wouldn't trust 'which?' as far as I could throw it, but as you say, it's the general populace that do. Sadly, warranty sells cars these days to the greater unwashed, rather than the car actually being made properly in the first place.
I wouldn't care if my car had a 1 year warranty, as long as it was screwed together properly. A 5, 7 or 'lifetime' warranty is completely useless if it has so many exclusions it's worthless.
I wouldn't care if my car had a 1 year warranty, as long as it was screwed together properly. A 5, 7 or 'lifetime' warranty is completely useless if it has so many exclusions it's worthless.
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More likely to break down than a Ford, heh, that's a joke right? I presume you're talking about opinion rather than fact here
Oh, and the Far Eastern style warranty is rubbish really, they make the cars so cheaply, then can afford to buy a long warranty for the customer - it's not because the car is made any better.
It's not a joke at all - it is the perception that "the man in the street" has about Fiat. And as Mega Ram, I mean Super Uwe, says, it is a massive problem for Fiat.
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I don't doubt it - a fair world it ain't - if I had £1 for every time someone said that my Alfa would be trouble and break down at every opportunity, I'd be a rich man.
This sort of thing will take decades of hard work to change - of course we all know that German cars aren't intrinsically more reliable.
This sort of thing will take decades of hard work to change - of course we all know that German cars aren't intrinsically more reliable.
Just saw your post on the Which site Maxi (well...unless it was another Daniel who writes in exactly the same way as you...).
I was being a diplomat to be honest; you're quite right that these sorts of articles are just terrible. I laughed when I read that one about winter tyres!
With respect to the points bgunn and RobinPJ make, I just think Fiat need to put more effort into telling people that they do actually make cars which won't fall apart. I applaud them for their efforts in becoming a leading eco brand, but I still get the feeling that Joe Public doesn't really care because of the old association with unreliable s***omobiles that fall apart.
I'm not sure whether a Skoda-esque advertising campaign would do the trick, but something along those lines might help.
).I was being a diplomat to be honest; you're quite right that these sorts of articles are just terrible. I laughed when I read that one about winter tyres!
With respect to the points bgunn and RobinPJ make, I just think Fiat need to put more effort into telling people that they do actually make cars which won't fall apart. I applaud them for their efforts in becoming a leading eco brand, but I still get the feeling that Joe Public doesn't really care because of the old association with unreliable s***omobiles that fall apart.
I'm not sure whether a Skoda-esque advertising campaign would do the trick, but something along those lines might help.
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Just saw your post on the Which site Maxi (well...unless it was another Daniel who writes in exactly the same way as you...
I was being a diplomat to be honest; you're quite right that these sorts of articles are just terrible. I laughed when I read that one about winter tyres!
With respect to the points bgunn and RobinPJ make, I just think Fiat need to put more effort into telling people that they do actually make cars which won't fall apart. I applaud them for their efforts in becoming a leading eco brand, but I still get the feeling that Joe Public doesn't really care because of the old association with unreliable s***omobiles that fall apart.
I'm not sure whether a Skoda-esque advertising campaign would do the trick, but something along those lines might help.
I agree - that's why I think that having a warranty which is more generous than the industry average would help with that.
Or even just a big ad campaign with the slogan: "If the bodywork of our cars rusts in the first five years of its life, we'll give you a new one."
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Nope, spend the money on actually improving the quality of the cars, so the warranty doesn't need to be invoked in the first place.
You're stupid if you buy a car because it has a long warranty, I would buy a car because it's well screwed together and has a good reliability record in the trade.
You're stupid if you buy a car because it has a long warranty, I would buy a car because it's well screwed together and has a good reliability record in the trade.
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OP
Agree. The 500 and Panda have generally good reputations for reliability hence why a lot of people who actually know about cars will buy them.
I think the issue with the warranty is that when relatively minor stuff breaks in the 3rd year they play hardball with you which is daft.
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But the problem is that most people DON'T know about cars, and most people still think about rust when they think of Fiats and dodgy electrics when they think about Italian cars in general.
What you want to do is give the great unwashed confidence that they are not buying a heap of problems - people want to buy cars, have them serviced cheaply ionce a year, and fill them with petrol. End of. And I'm sure a fair whack of people do not even go near a Fiat garage because they think that they are more likely to suffer a break down with a Fiat than with certain other manufacturers.
Other than just waiting until anyone who ever travelled in a Mirafiori that was more rust than car has died (and that would include me incidentally - my parents had one) the best way to change people's minds about the quality is to offer better back up.
It is what the Koreans are doing, and Vauxhall is following suit. Fiat should hang onto their coat tails right now.
What you want to do is give the great unwashed confidence that they are not buying a heap of problems - people want to buy cars, have them serviced cheaply ionce a year, and fill them with petrol. End of. And I'm sure a fair whack of people do not even go near a Fiat garage because they think that they are more likely to suffer a break down with a Fiat than with certain other manufacturers.
Other than just waiting until anyone who ever travelled in a Mirafiori that was more rust than car has died (and that would include me incidentally - my parents had one) the best way to change people's minds about the quality is to offer better back up.
It is what the Koreans are doing, and Vauxhall is following suit. Fiat should hang onto their coat tails right now.
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Incidently I had a 131 Mirafiori that was more or less rust free at its time of death in 2001
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Was that in (dry) Australia?
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OP
Just saw your post on the Which site Maxi (well...unless it was another Daniel who writes in exactly the same way as you...
I was being a diplomat to be honest; you're quite right that these sorts of articles are just terrible. I laughed when I read that one about winter tyres!
With respect to the points bgunn and RobinPJ make, I just think Fiat need to put more effort into telling people that they do actually make cars which won't fall apart. I applaud them for their efforts in becoming a leading eco brand, but I still get the feeling that Joe Public doesn't really care because of the old association with unreliable s***omobiles that fall apart.
I'm not sure whether a Skoda-esque advertising campaign would do the trick, but something along those lines might help.
Yes that was me
How did you know?
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OP
I'm sure that (and the respray it had done in the mid 90's which incidently was nothing to do with rust) and the fact that it was garaged for most of its life had nothing to do with it
But the 131 rusted less than a lot of other cars of that era in Australia which were treated in the same way. My brother was looking at Alfa 105 coupe's and took a beautiful looking red car to my dads favoured Italian mechanic and they reported back saying that when they put it on the hoist they could heard the car groaning and bits of bog filler started falling off like some sort of car dandruff. He didn't buy the car.......
TrevC
Established member
I agree with what's been said about the warranty. It gives a perception of manufacturer confidence, and with the 500 it would seem this is well founded. They do seem to be pretty reliable, so giving a full manufacturer's 5-year warranty wouldn't necessarily cost FIAT a lot. I think they provide 4 years in the US.
Yes that was me
Let's just say you have your own "unique" way of putting your point across...
- it looked familiar to me!
Maxi
if you want to collate and summarize this thread i will pass it on to Andrew Humberstone, I am in his network on linked in
if you want to collate and summarize this thread i will pass it on to Andrew Humberstone, I am in his network on linked in
OP
OP
Make a classic model, one which will appeal to just about everyone with no marmite features like Ye Ye Green or the boring 15" lounge wheels. Nice touches like side rubbing strips, Italian flag badges and the like will make people think they're getting extra
Stop skimping on 10p items on a 10k car (A pop is now £9900!!!!!). Why the **** has the breather pipe fitting on the airbox on my car broken off twice?????? 10p extra for slightly thicker plastic on the airbox in that area would sort it. Aside from silly little things like the airbox and breather pipes, my car would never have had to go into the dealership other than servicing. A few pounds extra spent on the car in terms of build quality would have been the difference between a car that's been in 4 times for warranty work and a car that's never been in for any warranty work.....
Fire Steven/Stephen in Fiat CS. He's a total a-hole and if I wasn't such a persistent person I would have just given up and never entertained the idea of buying another Fiat or FGA product EVER again.
A wider range of colours please. Modern ones and even a retro one like Jive blue. Google orange 500 -> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L-XlgbsEZfg/SYQCG7vWk0I/AAAAAAAAJB8/-hNPYQmDtZA/s400/NewFiat500_orange.jpg how nice is that????? Panda Mamy purple would do well too.
Get a group of people in who have NEVER visited the 500 site and get them to have a look at the range and witness the confusion that ensues. Things like the 16" wheels on the c not being available on the hatchback is just silly, it's upgrades like that which are where the profit is and you're giving people less options. People will be bowled over by the range of spec levels.
Make Tropicalia Yellow and Pasadoble red free. It's a common statement on other forums about them all being white and how boring it is. I think a white 500 on the road more or less goes unnoticed these days. Sure you'll lose the money from the sales of those colours, but I think the subsequent increase in sales because people start to notice the car will more than make up for it.
Stop skimping on 10p items on a 10k car (A pop is now £9900!!!!!). Why the **** has the breather pipe fitting on the airbox on my car broken off twice?????? 10p extra for slightly thicker plastic on the airbox in that area would sort it. Aside from silly little things like the airbox and breather pipes, my car would never have had to go into the dealership other than servicing. A few pounds extra spent on the car in terms of build quality would have been the difference between a car that's been in 4 times for warranty work and a car that's never been in for any warranty work.....
Fire Steven/Stephen in Fiat CS. He's a total a-hole and if I wasn't such a persistent person I would have just given up and never entertained the idea of buying another Fiat or FGA product EVER again.
A wider range of colours please. Modern ones and even a retro one like Jive blue. Google orange 500 -> http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_L-XlgbsEZfg/SYQCG7vWk0I/AAAAAAAAJB8/-hNPYQmDtZA/s400/NewFiat500_orange.jpg how nice is that????? Panda Mamy purple would do well too.
Get a group of people in who have NEVER visited the 500 site and get them to have a look at the range and witness the confusion that ensues. Things like the 16" wheels on the c not being available on the hatchback is just silly, it's upgrades like that which are where the profit is and you're giving people less options. People will be bowled over by the range of spec levels.
Make Tropicalia Yellow and Pasadoble red free. It's a common statement on other forums about them all being white and how boring it is. I think a white 500 on the road more or less goes unnoticed these days. Sure you'll lose the money from the sales of those colours, but I think the subsequent increase in sales because people start to notice the car will more than make up for it.
OP
OP
mmmmmm no paragraphs.......
