Technical Why diagnostic tests

[IvyAmy]

A moment ago
Hi, I took my Fiat 500c for a service. All I had was an oil change on Tuesday. Yesterday as I was driving and the car just stopped. I called the RAC and was told there was no oil in her and under the car was covered in oil. Where I parked her overnight I noticed oil had leaked. I called the garage and they came to tow her last night. I have just phoned them and all they said was she was having diagnostic tests. That’s all they would tell me. I’m 71 and I need her to get around. Not sure what to do. In desperate need of advice and help. Thank you

 

[chris3234]

Probably to see what has failed and how much damage there is


Is it a 1.2 or the 0.9 litre twin air motor?

 

[IvyAmy]

It’s an 0.9. What could happen to her when they just put oil in her. She was running perfect before then. Sorry to ask so many questions

 

[jrkitching]

Wait and see what they say; my money is on not tightening something properly.

The TA likely won't run at all once it loses oil pressure; how much permanent damage is done by then is anybody's guess. Even if they get it running again, this isn't a car I'd want to keep now.

Who serviced it - main dealer or independent garage?

 

[IvyAmy]

Thank you so much for answering. Independent garage.

 

[IvyAmy]

Wait and see what they say; my money is on not tightening something properly.

The TA likely won't run at all once it loses oil pressure; how much permanent damage is done by then is anybody's guess. Even if they get it running again, this isn't a car I'd want to keep now.

Who serviced it - main dealer or independent garage?

 

[IvyAmy]

It was an independent garage. Thank you so much for your advice x

 

[jrkitching]

Assuming it runs once they've fixed the leak and replaced the oil, my guess is they'll try to tell you it won't have done any damage.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't be so sure. The TA engine is a hugely oil sensitive design and the hydraulic valve actuating mechanism is a known weakness that certainly won't take kindly to being run without oil. Replacing this part will cost at least £1500.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I think this is one for a Citizens Advice call. If it seems OK the garage need to warrant it will still be OK 12 months down the road. I think you definitely need advice and see what the garage find / say. It sounds like they have done something to the oil filter that has caused this. It may be that some form of arbitration is needed to get the right outcome. I agree its not something I would keep after this the engine oil is infinitely more important than in a more conventional set up as stated above. If the TA / uniair Unit has been starved of oil it will have damaged it. I agree with jrkitching above comments.

 

[IvyAmy]

I think this is one for a Citizens Advice call. If it seems OK the garage need to warrant it will still be OK 12 months down the road. I think you definitely need advice and see what the garage find / say. It sounds like they have done something to the oil filter that has caused this. It may be that some form of arbitration is needed to get the right outcome. I agree its not something I would keep after this the engine oil is infinitely more important than in a more conventional set up as stated above. If the TA / uniair Unit has been starved of oil it will have damaged it. I agree with jrkitching above comments.

 

[IvyAmy]

Thank you. I’m 71 and needed advice on what to say to the garage when they call. I now know . X

 

[John202020]

Questions like
"Where did the oil leak out from"?
"Is that a part/area, that would have been disturbed in any way when serviced"?
Please ask for photographs
Consider an independent inspection before any work to correct the fault ?
Any engine that stops due to oil starvation/lack of oil is often beyond economic repair, not something you may want to hear, though the twin air may have stopped for different reasons

 

[Davren]

If you are a member of the AA or RAC, they may offer you advice.
.

 

[IvyAmy]

Questions like
"Where did the oil leak out from"?
"Is that a part/area, that would have been disturbed in any way when serviced"?
Please ask for photographs
Consider an independent inspection before any work to correct the fault ?
Any engine that stops due to oil starvation/lack of oil is often beyond economic repair, not something you may want to hear, though the twin air may have stopped for different reasons

If you are a member of the AA or RAC, they may offer you advice.
.

Thank you. I am. Will call them x

 

[IvyAmy]

thank you. I am. Will call them x

 

[jrkitching]

I think you should now wait to see what the garage have to say.

Once we've seen their response, we'll be in a better position to advise you further.

 

[portland_bill]

I think you should now wait to see what the garage have to say.

Once we've seen their response, we'll be in a better position to advise you further.

Yes, wait for the garage's report. At that time, take it all in, don't mention citizen's advice, or any other legal action. Just take in the info, ask questions about causes, without being accusatory, then say you'll need to think about it.
Then talk again to the RAC, for their advice. They used to have an inspection service, as well as a legal service, so let them guide you.
Also, post on here the report, and the garage's proposed fix.

If they tell you it is all fixed, and ready to collect, ask probing questions about what went wrong, and what are the likely long-term effects. Write everything down, as memories are poor. If they say OK to go, delay collection until posted here and spoken to RAC.

Loss of oil on a Twinair is likely to be less catastrphic than on the 1.2. A normal engine like the 1.2 will seize, wrecking the engine. The Twinair could also do this, but if the valve control runs out of oil pressure first, as is likely, that may shut the engine down before more serious damage. However, if mine, I'd still want the crank bearings inspected to be sure undamaged.

The garage could be liable for an engine, so they'll want to avoid that. Although, they will be insured, and may well do the right thing. A used engine from a crashed car would be the route to go, btu needs to be sure it is no higher milage than yours, and with a good service history. May be easier for them to find you a similar replacement car.

Don't push them, initially just see what they offer.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

So sorry to hear of your problems and I think some excellent advice - as usual - being given above so I've little to add. As PB says above, because the twin air's valves are actuated by oil pressure I'd think the engine will stop almost immediately if oil supply fails, unlike a more conventional engine which will tend to run to destruction unless noticed and the ignition turned off. So, if all that's happened is the sump plug or oil filter wasn't properly tightened up and the oil leaked out then there's some hope that little damage will have been done. Unfortunately, without significant (and therefore costly) dismantling damage to main/big end bearings and other parts may not become apparent for quite some time.

I'm a hopeless pessimist so if it was mine and it seemed to be running well when given back to me I'd be for ever worrying about possible future problems so I'd be trading it in as soon as I could. If the garage finds damage has already been done and the car is undriveable it's going to depend very much on what they report to you and what they intend doing about it. Please do keep us updated when you have more to go on.

 

[John202020]

Also remember you'll probably have "legal cover" on your car insurance who can help should further action be required?

 

[IvyAmy]

Questions like
"Where did the oil leak out from"?
"Is that a part/area, that would have been disturbed in any way when serviced"?
Please ask for photographs
Consider an independent inspection before any work to correct the fault ?
Any engine that stops due to oil starvation/lack of oil is often beyond economic repair, not something you may want to hear, though the twin air may have stopped for different reasons

Yes, wait for the garage's report. At that time, take it all in, don't mention citizen's advice, or any other legal action. Just take in the info, ask questions about causes, without being accusatory, then say you'll need to think about it.
Then talk again to the RAC, for their advice. They used to have an inspection service, as well as a legal service, so let them guide you.
Also, post on here the report, and the garage's proposed fix.

If they tell you it is all fixed, and ready to collect, ask probing questions about what went wrong, and what are the likely long-term effects. Write everything down, as memories are poor. If they say OK to go, delay collection until posted here and spoken to RAC.

Loss of oil on a Twinair is likely to be less catastrphic than on the 1.2. A normal engine like the 1.2 will seize, wrecking the engine. The Twinair could also do this, but if the valve control runs out of oil pressure first, as is likely, that may shut the engine down before more serious damage. However, if mine, I'd still want the crank bearings inspected to be sure undamaged.

The garage could be liable for an engine, so they'll want to avoid that. Although, they will be insured, and may well do the right thing. A used engine from a crashed car would be the route to go, btu needs to be sure it is no higher milage than yours, and with a good service history. May be easier for them to find you a similar replacement car.

Don't push them, initially just see what they offer.

Thank you. I still haven’t heard from them so will see what they say when they call x