Technical Water leak - why?

[Guydickinson]

The car (2014 Panda) had a timing belt change and a service about a month ago. About 5 days after that small puddles of water with antifreeze started appearing under the engine. The mechanic thought it might be the top hose and changed it. It now seems slightly worse. No obvious leak site seen in the engine. Any thoughts please?.Engine runs perfectly.

 

[Panda IIs]

The car (2014 Panda) had a timing belt change and a service about a month ago. About 5 days after that small puddles of water with antifreeze started appearing under the engine. The mechanic thought it might be the top hose and changed it. It now seems slightly worse. No obvious leak site seen in the engine. Any thoughts please?.Engine runs perfectly.

So did they do the water pump as part of the belt change??

 

[Guydickinson]

So did they do the water pump as part of the belt change??

Sorry - yes they did.

 

[Panda IIs]

Well, that's maybe where I would check first are the drips at that end of the engine? I don't have the 1.2 engine but I believe there's a common failure point around the thermostat housing (have a search on here). Maybe fresh coolant after the pump change has aggravated something there?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Another "usual suspect" is the metal pipe which runs along the front of the engine. It can leak where it plugs into the back of the water pump - "O" ring type rubber seal which leaks when the rubber hardens with age - but is also known to rust through, often around where it's wee support bracket is welded on. You need to look quite carefully at this pipe as it can look pretty pristine over most of it's surface but then you find one, very localized, rust spot.

Your car probably has the heater pipe takeoff from the thermostat body. Most of them have a plastic stub pipe which is prone to cracking and leaking - beware as it can easily just break off completely once it gets brittle. There seems to be a replacement with a metal heater stub pipe but many will have the plastic one. It's worth seeking out the one with the metal pipe if renewing it.

Shop4parts do the metal pipe which runs across the front of the engine at a good price, maybe they do the thermostat too. They source a lot of stuff direct from Italian manufacturers so many are not brands we recognize - for instance the pipe was branded "Original Birth" when I bought one a few years ago - Don't let this worry you, I've bought quite a lot of stuff from them for our Pandas over the years and never had a bad part yet. They are very helpful and friendly so don't hesitate to ring them for advice and queries. Having reg no and VIN to hand.

 

[jrkitching]

Another "usual suspect" is the metal pipe which runs along the front of the engine. It can leak where it plugs into the back of the water pump - "O" ring type rubber seal which leaks when the rubber hardens with age - but is also known to rust through, often around where it's wee support bracket is welded on. You need to look quite carefully at this pipe as it can look pretty pristine over most of it's surface but then you find one, very localized, rust spot.

Yes, this would be the first thing I'd check, since replacing the water pump necessarily means breaking the seal with this pipe.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Regarding the plastic heater take off pipe on the later type of thermostat housing. There's mention of exactly that problem in this thread: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/fiat-panda-169-mylife-1-2-my-3rd-fiat.510686/page-2#post-4808983 You'll find it under the heading "New Thermostat"

 

[The Panda Nut]

Also check the bottom hose quick release coupling. These are anything but quick release! If disturbed my experience is they leak and nothing will stop them except changimg the coupling which comes with a new hose. Thankfully Gates, amongst others sell these for a sensible price.

Summarising above.

• Thermostat. c £30 has two possible weaknesses. Larger outlet if its a plastic eixt pipe, and its Oring seal. (Comes with thermostat). Easy to fit. Original Birth brand parts are all aluminium so avoid this possible issue.
• Front pipe where it fits into the waterpump more or less behing the manifold. Again £30 for the part but awkward to fit. The water pump end is just push fit so may just not be properly located.
• Bottom hose quick release. East to fit. about £20
• Water pump its self may be leaking.
• Also consider the radiator itself may be an unrelated leak.
• Check the bleed valve on the hose by your battery is not leaking. These dont need to be very tight and overdoing it can damage them

Also its been quite warm recently is this just air-con condensate draining under the car? The important thing is the water level. If this is stable its a great sign all may be well.

 

[JayAre]

About 5 days after that small puddles of water with antifreeze started appearing under the engine

seems conclusive this is a leak

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

agreed. Would be useful to know where in relation to the engine they are? is it more towards the timing belt end or towards the gearbox/bell housing end. or more in the middle? Is it nearer the front of the engine bay or further back towards the bulkhead? If we had this we could maybe narrow down the possibilities.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Also look along the bottom of the radiator. Post a few photos if possible

 

[varesecrazy]

The car (2014 Panda) had a timing belt change and a service about a month ago. About 5 days after that small puddles of water with antifreeze started appearing under the engine. The mechanic thought it might be the top hose and changed it. It now seems slightly worse. No obvious leak site seen in the engine. Any thoughts please?.Engine runs perfectly.

Gearbox end, or Alternator end for the dribbles?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The mechanic thought it might be the top hose

So logical to think the leak was somewhere around that area which is end of cylinder head above bell housing and radiator top hose pipe on radiator.

and changed it. It now seems slightly worse.

Wasn't top hose then but maybe he disturbed the heater hose where it comes off the thermostat housing and, if it's a plastic one, now it's leaking more?

No obvious leak site seen in the engine. Any thoughts please?.Engine runs perfectly.

Things are a bit cramped around the thermostat so you might miss seeing the leak here - might need a mirror?

 

[timmycm850]

If the leak is timing belt end then it's is very easy to overlook a small detail.

One of the bolts holding the water pump onto the block passes through the block casting directly into the waterway so water/antifreeze can pass down the thread and out through the bolthole. It is one of the front ones so ideally it needs to be fitted dry using sealant in the thread/bolt/washer and it also will not tolerate a split spring washer. The leakage will be minimal but annoying.

It may be accessible through the wheelarch without removing the engine mount.

So if you have minor dripping from the timing belt cover then the pump seals themselves will be good but it's just the mounting/fitting.


Hope this helps.

Tim