Virtual Communities

[kayl0rz]

As part of a new media essay, i have to discuss the following statement :
"an online or virtual community is a second rate form of community"

what are peoples thought on what Gordon Graham is saying?

when hes talking about these Virtual Communities hes talking about things like Second life, and Forums to some extent.

just because the community is formed and upheld online does this make it a pseudo-community? my whole argument is.. just because its online.. doesnt make it any less of a community.. Traditionally a community is a form of social organization, a commonality of interests, be them objective or subjective.. but thats also what happens online.. we're all brought together with one common interest. Fiats. just because its online doesnt mean its any less of a community. this can be said about friendships too.. because they are friendships forged and maintained online.. does this make them less important and less valid that "real life" friendships.

the basis of my essay is that Graham is talking out of his arse.

i was just curious to get other peoples thoughts on the subject.

 

[jug]

its one of those standard questions that asks you to define 'community' in such a way that you can prove or disprove that a virtual community is still a true functional community (your choice so define in a way that serves your purpose, imo it is still a community) and then examine how that definition matches up with the charactersitics of various online communities (this is the real world examples and analysis bit), point out differences to traditional communities and the effects of these differences (good & bad), also identify unique attributes of virtual communities and examine the advantages & disadvantages of these, then conclude by saying a virtual community is a type of community, and while it is different to a traditional commmuity it can still be called a true functional community by definition because the aims and objectives of a community are serviced satisfactorily by virtual communities even when considering the restrictions.

i guess your word limit is 2500 if its a second year 20credit module assignment, so you'll find it hard to fit it all in, keep to the golden rule, if something wont get you a mark dont write it.

 

[kayl0rz]

so you think a virtual community is just as much a community as "real life" ones.

sorry.. you just bascially told me how to write my essay.. ie, say this, then that, then this.
that wasnt what i was after, i know how to write my essay, and what im saying in it. im just curious as to what other people think on the subject.

thanks anyway Jug

 

[Chas Uno]

There are various levels of substance when describing a community. The highest levels normally require personal (as in face to face) interaction, whereas a virtual community lacks this vital element of human contact for the majority of the time.

It could also be argued that many people in virtual communities hide their identities or use pseudonyms. Look at the number of paedophile kiddy stalkers that are caught posing as youngsters online when in fact they are grown adults. Don't forget as well that many meek and mild people find the ability to become internet warriors when behind a keyboard. In 'normal' life they are polite and decent, but get them hiding behind the internet and they become aggressive, antagonistic and downright rude. Is this a true reflection of how that person fits into a community?

You also find that people are more likely to abandon an online community without much thought as there are plenty of others to move on to. As a result an online community is not likely to be as stable as a real social community.

There are of course benefits of online communities such as FF, as it allows people with a niche interest to meet and communicate with others. How else would I have been able to find as many Fiat nutters all in one place?!!! In 'real' life it wouldn't have been as easy to find such people so this is where a virtual community has huge advantages.

 

[jug]

i personally believe that a community only qualifies as a true community if it offers a shared environment based on a common interest.

that environment can be physical or vitual, there is no real loss in either case in terms of what a community is, however the difference between a physical and virtual community is significant. its like comparing a bus to a car, they are both transport so you get from a to b in either case, but beyond that there is little similarity.

that is why the definition of community is so important, there are plenty of ways to define a community that would not include a virtual community, so you could say a virtual community is a different beast with a different purpose, but i think ultimately it all comes down to the shared environment and common interest, thats the only qualifiers as far as i'm conerned, anything else is just the characteristics of that community.

 

[volxstu]

I though that second rate actually means anti normality i dont think it means anything about its functionality.
But i do think that where people pose in those silly virtual worlds virtually living what they cant achieve in real life has good and bad points.
I have never used one but i would say that for people with Anxity and depression like me could benefit from socially interacting without actually being face to face to people it can help them to learn certain things so they can practice this in the real world. But this is an ideal and im sure that people of that nature would not be able to remove what they have learnt and would only be able so use new social skills online. Often these types of people have addictive personalities therefore over use would be a strong possibility causing all sorts of problems.
It is my view that a virtual community should have some sort of benefit to ones life like when i use the forum i am making my life easier by learning more stuff.
I absolutely hate things like Face Book and Myspace i dont really know why but using it to promote music and other creatives is killing the usual ways of networking but this could also be seen as a way of gathering lots of tallent and giving those a chance to shine when they wouldnt normally get any recognition.

 

[kayl0rz]

facebook and myspace n stuff are Social Networking sites, not virtual communities two totally different things ive been told i thought they were the same.. but a man talking about it for 50 minutes proved me wrong.

ive got a rough draft of my essay, (due in in two weeks) and im gonna give it to my seminar leader to proof for me this afternoon. and see what she says

 

[volxstu]

Yeah spose they are different. Im a little confused what subject are you studying actually i spose its got to be social studies. I hate those subjects where you have to work and stuff and go to lectures where sad balding men talk about absolutly rubbish. I went to art school me verry little writing lots of smoking pot for inspiration and the tutors are interesting to say the least.

 

[Chas Uno]

I hate those subjects where you have to work and stuff and go to lectures where sad balding men talk about absolutly rubbish.

Sounds like what I have to go to. Except I'm not complaining and the sad balding men aren't talking rubbish as they're teaching me the skills I need to qualify. I'm also virtually guaranteed to get a job if I put the effort in to do the work and complete the degree. I don't complain about having to do the work either as I'm a strong believer that you only get out what you can be bothered to put in.

I went to art school me verry little writing lots of smoking pot for inspiration and the tutors are interesting to say the least.

And now you're suffering from anxiety and depression (often linked to excess cannabis consumption), and did you manage to get a job after 'training' at your art school?

 

[kayl0rz]

I'm studying Media Studies and Photography & Video at uni, this essay is for the New Media module which is from the Media Studies half of my degree.. complicated

i find it interesting, even though i worked out today, i dont NEED to be in most of the lectures... i just need to goto the lectures that cover what the essays are about, so i can gain an understanding of what i need to write about. i dont need to goto them all because i dont have exams. we'll have a few essays, and the subjects of the essays (like this one for example) are a certain weeks teaching.. like in week 4, the New Media lecture was about Virtual Communities. so i could technically only goto week 4's lecture.. and not go to anymore for the entire year!

but because i enjoy what im learning.. i WANT to goto lectures.. even though i can pass with only going to 1 or 2

im not paying £3,000 a year to not learn anything!

 

[volxstu]

And now you're suffering from anxiety and depression (often linked to excess cannabis consumption), and did you manage to get a job after 'training' at your art school?

That is a common miss conception i have always had it but such mental illnesses arent diagnosed untill the start of drug use because of worring parents or other people close to you.
But it is the use of psychedelic drugs that amplifies it and makes you a bit weird and that you wont recover from very easily. I stopped that and my life took a turn for the better.
And yes i was actually working for Hornby/Scalextric before i even finnished Uni but now they are not extending my contract so as of Christmas i am unemployed. It is extremly hard to find a decent job because i studied Graphics design and it is a very narrow subject unlike Geography or something there isnt an endless amount of things that you can apply for.
With regards to you liking well paying attention that is what you like which is why you study what you do i was merely pointing out the differnces. In my last year i put a lot of effort in due to my change in lifestyle and managed to self direct about 80% of it whilst still working 5 days a week so your right you do get out what you put in. But even then there are no guarantees in this life i thought that i was guaranteed a job and now due to politics i wont have a job soon. I am extremely good at my job and very Dilligent at what i do.
Sorry if this was a long and boring answer.

 

[volxstu]

im not paying £3,000 a year to not learn anything!

Ouch thats expensive im glad i didnt have to pay that much, but saying that i was spending over £200 a month just to get to uni because i stayed living and still do live at home. I take it you have a rather large student lone. I am proud of the fact that i came out of uni with just a £300 overdraft no other debt. Now i really need to get out of my parents house i dont know how ive lasted so long.

 

[Chas Uno]

The British Medical Journal agrees that cannabis is linked to depression, anxiety and schizophrenia:

"Their seven-year study of 1,600 teenage girls found girls who used the drug everyday were five times more likely to become depressed and suffer from anxiety compared to those who did not use the drug.

Those who used the drug at least once every week were twice as likely to develop depression compared to non-users.

A second study, by doctors in Sweden, confirmed previous research suggesting that cannabis can increase the risk of developing depression.

Their study of more than 50,000 men found those who had smoked the drug in the late 1960s were 30% more likely to have developed schizophrenia."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2498493.stm


Plus there are more studies also backing up the BMJ's findings:

"A study following 1600 Australian school-children, aged 14 to 15 for seven years, found that while children who use cannabis regularly have a significantly higher risk of depression, the opposite was not the case - children who already suffered from depression were not more likely than anyone else to use cannabis. However, adolescents who used cannabis daily were five times more likely to develop depression and anxiety in later life."

http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalheal.../alcoholanddrugs/cannabisandmentalhealth.aspx



"Powerful new evidence that regular cannabis smoking by teenagers causes depression in young adulthood has prompted a call for it to be taken as seriously as heroin and amphetamines in government drug-control efforts."

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/11/22/1037697875452.html



There are some findings that suggest small doses of cannabis can be beneficial, though regulating the dose is hard. Larger doses however can have completely the opposite effect and can increase the level of depression and also trigger pyschosis:

"``Some smokers experience anxiety, agitation. But at very high doses and in certain circumstances, it leads into depression-enhancing effects, particularly if you take in a lot of cannabis at very high doses.''

Humans using cannabis as an anti-depressant is problematic since it's hard to control the dosage when it is smoked in the form of marijuana joints, says lead researcher Dr. Gabriella Gobbi.

``Our research shows that excessive cannabis use in people with depression poses a high risk of psychosis,'' Gobbi said in a telephone interview from Italy."

http://www.safp.ca/Living/Health/4296.html

I've smoked cannabis in the past but won't any more. The career I'm now training for can carry out spot checks and if any trace of cannabis is found in my blood then I will be struck off the medical register. Not something I wish to risk after training for four years and working hard. This semester alone I have to complete 700 hours of practice in four work placements plus assignments to do on top of that. I also know too many people who continued to smoke cannabis past their teens and now have psychiatric problems. This is even more evident when working in mental health wards which I will have to do as part of my work placements.

Saying that, I do know of some people who smoke cannabis occasionally (but in moderation) and have no problems. But too many people, like with alcohol, don't know when to stop and that's when the problems start.

I also asked if you managed to get a job with your art school qualifications because a friend of mine completed his fine art degree (he got a "1st" too) last May. He's been on the dole ever since, which made me wonder why he chose to do that degree as it hasn't got him a job and he has a wife and two children to support...

Anyway, back to Virtual Communities...

 

[kayl0rz]

LOLZ!

thanks for hijacking my thread

gotta thank you all for your input, its helped me loads!

all i need to do now is find someone that agrees with the statement :chin:
maybe looking on an internet forum isnt the best place tho!!

 

[Chas Uno]

LOLZ!

thanks for hijacking my thread

gotta thank you all for your input, its helped me loads!

all i need to do now is find someone that agrees with the statement :chin:
maybe looking on an internet forum isnt the best place tho!!

Sorry Kayl0rz

Then again, you could put in your essay how online communities allow discussed subjects to go off on wild tangents!

 

[volxstu]

LOLZ!

thanks for hijacking my thread

gotta thank you all for your input, its helped me loads!

all i need to do now is find someone that agrees with the statement :chin:
maybe looking on an internet forum isnt the best place tho!!

My first comment was supposed to agree with that statement as the people who tend to use the more extreme virtual communities arent very good at 1st rate socialisation so they use virtual reality to live the reality that they would like. Sorry for highjacking your thread. And using this forum is probably the better place to look for an answer to disprove that statement as there is a happy medium and if you learn something here then go practise it buy for example changing a light bulb then that is very useful to socity because you are fullfilling a legal requirement. I know what i have said doesnt make a lot of sense but hopefully you get the gist of it.

 

[jug]

i think people who lack social skills would tend to shy away from all communities, both virtual and traditional.

i dont see virtual communities as an alternative for insecure people because both types of community require the same skills. for example, if you cant communicate face to face is it really so much different communicating over the net?

the environment is different but all else remains the same.

its like saying you cant eat a burger in a pub but you can eat a burger at home just fine, both require chewing and swallowing so what difference can it really make where you eat it?

shy people are scared of been judged, you are just as likely to be judged in a virtual community as in any other.

on the other hand, you could argue that for many people the reason a virtual community is less of a threat is that you can remove yourself from it at any time without any consequence to your 'real life'. maybe thats why some socially retarded people find it easier in a virtual community, they dont feel the same pressures.

 

[volxstu]

i think people who lack social skills would tend to shy away from all communities, both virtual and traditional.

i dont see virtual communities as an alternative for insecure people because both types of community require the same skills. for example, if you cant communicate face to face is it really so much different communicating over the net?

the environment is different but all else remains the same.

its like saying you cant eat a burger in a pub but you can eat a burger at home just fine, both require chewing and swallowing so what difference can it really make where you eat it?

shy people are scared of been judged, you are just as likely to be judged in a virtual community as in any other.

on the other hand, you could argue that for many people the reason a virtual community is less of a threat is that you can remove yourself from it at any time without any consequence to your 'real life'. maybe thats why some socially retarded people find it easier in a virtual community, they dont feel the same pressures.

I know that it sounds strange but it is true it is easier for "socially retarded people" like me to talk on the internet. The anxiety from face to face is about what people think of you and it is easier to remove yourself from these thoughts on the internet. Right i was going to say something else but painkillers have kicked in so my brain is a bit scrambled and i forgot.
Oh thats it you cant really understand anxiety unless you have it but its a bit like you can talk badly about someone to sumone else but it is always harder to say it to there face especially if you need to get along with the person it is always harder. That is about the closest analagy that i could find.

 

[missey]

I think it can be just as nerve racking being on the internet...when i first started using forums, i was far more nervous of what people would think or say about me. But I was quite happy to run a pub in a rough area of North London.

And how often do you see..."I'm new, please be nice"

In real life you can laugh something off ... online, it can be c+p back to you or shoved in a sig....if its really stupid lol

But, back on topic.... I for one, think FF is one of the nicest communities on the net