General Tire Size

[riprowan]

I just got my 1969 500, and it's so cool!

It needs new tires. Pirelli 145 / 12" are easy to come by here in Dallas and are inexpensive, and should give better handling than the 125s that are on it now. But I'm concerned about wheel well rubbing. Does anyone know if 145s will fit well or rub? I'm using the stock wheels.

I will have a million other questions. I'm a 500 n00b.

 

[tjmra]

I ran Michelin 145/70 R12's on my RHD 69F with no rubbing. Car has standard suspension setup and wheels. You will find that if you use that size for the spare as well it is a tight fit in the front.

There are some general photos on my thread (500F Rebuild) nothing specific on the wheels though. I don't have any of the tyres on rims at home so I can't even supply a photo of that for you.

I will try and put the same on again as part of my rebuild (though I am not sure if there is a limit to what is legal on the rim).

(I like your quip about space savers, you will fit in well here!)

Joe R

 

[Bambino]

I agree with Joe.
During my rebuild I fitted 126 rims (12"x4.5J) shod with 145/70Rs.
At standard height there are no problems front or rear.
With the front lowered I have some minor rubbing issues that I'll solve with some very minimal panel work.
The 145s do not protrude beyond the guards either, so flaring is not necessary.
I believe 145s will just fit on the standard 3.5J rims in place of the 125 pizza cutters.
The car is a 1967 RHD 500F.
Chris

 

[riprowan]

Excellent! Thank you two so much for replying. I'll go with the 145s!

It is such a relief to find an active forum for this car. I literally know nothing about it.

 

[riprowan]

I agree with Joe.
During my rebuild I fitted 126 rims (12"x4.5J) shod with 145/70Rs.
At standard height there are no problems front or rear.
With the front lowered I have some minor rubbing issues that I'll solve with some very minimal panel work.
The 145s do not protrude beyond the guards either, so flaring is not necessary.
I believe 145s will just fit on the standard 3.5J rims in place of the 125 pizza cutters.
The car is a 1967 RHD 500F.
Chris

So I got the 145s, and they do rub a bit. I'm going to take the car to a body shop to see if I can get it improved.

 

[oopsadaisy]

I just got my 1969 500, and it's so cool!

I will have a million other questions. I'm a 500 n00b.

Hello and welcome to the forum!

Ask away - there are some very knowledgeable people on here who will be very pleased to help you.

Keep us posted with your progress!

 

[Bambino]

So I got the 145s, and they do rub a bit. I'm going to take the car to a body shop to see if I can get it improved.

Rip,

That's interesting. Which tyres rub and if it is the front tyres, at what steering position (eg: straight ahead, full lock etc.)

On each side, the front transverse leaf spring on these cars is held in place by a pair of rubber blocks. The rubber loses its shape over the years and the spring may rotate a little in the housings. If there is enough play in the rest of the front suspension, this rotation may displace the front wheel centres either forward or backward. This was the case on my car - the wheel centres were displaced slightly forward. Once I replaced the blocks and bushes, the spring sat centrally and the wheels relocated to their proper positions.

When I lowered the front using a reverse eye spring, I did get some minor rubbing against the inside of the front guard on each side on full lock. This was easily fixed by a competent panelbeater though unfortunately, I don't have any photos to show you.

The rear of the car was never a problem.

IMHO, 145R12s are better tyres - slightly wider with a more modern tread pattern. In Australia, 125R12s are not routinely stocked by tyre retailers and can be difficult to source. I don't know what I'll do when the supply of 12" tyres dries up completely - maybe convert to either 10" or 13" rims. I'll worry about it if and when the problem arises

Sorry if I sold you a bum steer with the tyre recommendation, but as I said above, once I sorted the front suspension, everything was OK.

Hope this helps,
Chris

 

[tjmra]

Rip (Rowan??)

Not quite sure what went wrong here, I would not have made comment unless my experience was that all would be OK. I have included a photo of my car. Weight wise, the only thing that was stripped out were the front seats. Tyres are 145's and you can see there is plenty of clearence with standard suspension.

My thoughs are that there is something wrong with my setup. Chris points out what can go wrong in his reply to your post. When I get the car back I will have to check. Car has always been like this so the error goes back 25 years!

I am sorry if I have caused you grief, perhaps you can post a photo or two showing the problem area.

Chris, if I am going to run into a problem if I put my car back together 'correctly' (or slightly lowered) would it be worth speaking to David and asking him to make the slight panel adjustment before he puts any paint on?

Regards

Joe R

 

[Bambino]

From my reading around these cars, everyone has a slightly different experience.

For myself, with the normal front spring and 145R12s fitted, I had light contact rubbing of the inside of the leading edge of the front tyre against the inner front guard on full lock. Whilst it probably wasn't a real issue, it would be enough to fail a safety certificate. With the renewal of the front suspension rubbers and bushes, the caster angle has been restored to normal and the rubbing has disappeared. I now have about 5mm clearance.

With the lowered suspension, the problem has recurred and will only be cured with the removal of a small part of the inner front guard. These guards were realigned when I had a new front panel fitted and the weld line between the guards and the new front panel may be a little proud. It should be a simple fix.

Most of the articles I have read do not mention any problems when fitting 145R12 tyres on 4.5" rims with a standard suspension. One article did mention the type of slight contact that I've described, but did not elaborate on the cure, if any. The guys in Adelaide (Vito at the The Spare Place www.thespareplace.com.au) who have given me some advice over the last year or so, also do not report any problems.

Hope this helps,
Chris

 

[riprowan]

I suspect this was the problem, Chris. One wheel sits a little forward in the wheel well, and that is the one that is rubbing.

For now, I have replaced the tires with 125/12s, so the car is running and driving OK for now. I have a thousand other questions, though!

 

[Damon500]

Hi Guys,
The 145 x 12 is a significantly bigger tyre than the 145/70x12- the 70's have a very similar rolling radius to the 125/12 and will fit fine provided the car hasn't had too many accidents- a small bump on the wheelarch will be enough to cause the tyres to rub- often when they are repaired panelbeaters don't straighten out the guard enough and clearance is reduced. On the Fiat 126 the seam at the back of the arch is flattened in the middle from factory to allow bigger tyres to fit without rubbing. I have run 135/12's on unmodified 500's and these will only rub on this seam over a bump with a heavy passenger on full lock at speed! 125x12 look right on a 500 though and will be much more fun in the wet- the smaller tyres have much more progressive break away into a slide unlike the larger tyres which can 'snap' the back end into a slide when they finally reach the limits of adhesion- which can result in a 500 falling on it's side -just like Luigi on the Cars movie when Schumacher rolled in the door of Luigi's Casa della tyres!

 

[Bambino]

just like Luigi on the Cars movie when Schumacher rolled in the door of Luigi's Casa della tyres!

"White walls say look at me, look at me ....."

Great movie

Chris

 

[tjmra]

Chris,

a 500 by itself says "look at me look at me"!

David is making noises re choice of colour (I want red but everyone else want ivory). If 145's on my car are going to be an issue (even though they never have been) should I get him to modify with a well directed blow or two?


Joe R

 

[Bambino]

If 145's on my car are going to be an issue (even though they never have been) should I get him to modify with a well directed blow or two?


Joe R

Probably not a bad idea. If I see David in the next week, I'll ask him to have a look at my car - it may give him some more ideas regarding wheel/tyre fit etc.

Chris

 

[tjmra]

Chris,

would appreciate that. Much easier before rather than after and to have it pointed out rather than describe the issue over the phone.

Good to hear you are dry. Parts of my suburb went right under, luckily I was OK. Have spent most of the weekend helping clean out a couple of houses. Some of these guys have lost everything. It is really heartbreaking.

Joe R

 

[Damon500]

Hi guys, glad to hear you are keeping dry. You will find on the Australian 500F's that you can probably run a 145 tyre on standard suspension height. This is because Aussie cars had an extra leaf added to the front spring to raise the height of the front of the car for local headlight height regulations. This is why the Aussie 500F's have a 'nose up' look to them - and also don't have the problems of front springs sagging which was quite common on cars in New Zealand. On the 126 there is more clearance added by the factory for larger (135x12) tyres by the flattening of the inner wheelarch seam in a 10cm section on the rear end of the arch

 

[tjmra]

Damon,

Rushed out to the shed, checked my spare leaf springs and counted 6 leaves. Rushed back inside and had a look at the doco that I have and it only shows 5 (but Haynes notes 6 for the wagon). May have realised something was different when it came time to clean up the spring but may not have either!

I always thought that there was a lot of clearance between the top of the tyre and the wheel arch. Now it makes sense why I could run the 145's and Rip had an issue.

Live and learn, I would love to leave one leaf out but I guess I have to consider the trade off.

Regards

Joe R

 

[fiat500]

...so 135-12's are going to be fine?

The Cinturatos look great and I've found are OK for 28,000 miles. I just had a shock finding one has worn down to 1.9mm. The 135's are about 25% cheaper, which is no huge saving. I just wondered if they might give just a bit more grip in winter?

These for instance?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TYRE-...4:g:NnkAAOSwpspbgLWg:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

 

[IanEmery]

These for instance?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2x-TYRE-...4:g:NnkAAOSwpspbgLWg:rk:2:pf:1&frcectupt=true

Peter, I think I’d be looking for something with a better wet road rating than an F, given the lack of weight on the front wheels of a 500. Just my two pen’th :chin:

 

[fiat500]

Peter, I think I’d be looking for something with a better wet road rating than an F, given the lack of weight on the front wheels of a 500. Just my two pen’th :chin:

Good point...well spotted. But they're just the first randoms I saw.[emoji847] Better ones are obviously available. It made me wonder how the Cinturatos come out of the rating system.? So far I know the max speed rating is 75mph... already uncomfortably close to that limit!