General The FIAT Panda 4x4 will be available to order again in 2023.

[The Pretender]

Most logical would probable be, that FIAT will use 2023, to finish all build and semi build 4x4 Panda's with what they have, and then either pull the plug on the 4x4 Panda's, or it wil get a 3 cilinder engine for the last 3 years of production, and in that case probably the 70 hp Hybrid.

 

[Marcus Daly]

The biggest challenge is what engines could be fitted to the 4x4 gearbox, besides the TwinAir engine.

And that’s why it’s a non-starter. They’re not going to re-engineer the transmission of the 4x4 at the fag-end of its life. 4x4 sales are a drop in the ocean for Stellantis. There’s no commercial case that can be made for it. Especially not in these troubled times. If the 4x4 does make a reappearance, it’s because they’ve found a consignment of Twin Airs down the back of the sofa.

 

[porta]

And that’s why it’s a non-starter. They’re not going to re-engineer the transmission of the 4x4 at the fag-end of its life. 4x4 sales are a drop in the ocean for Stellantis. There’s no commercial case that can be made for it. Especially not in these troubled times. If the 4x4 does make a reappearance, it’s because they’ve found a consignment of Twin Airs down the back of the sofa.

Wehn I was in Susa, towns north of Turin and the Vale De Aosta (apart from the Caribinieri Alfas, the snowplough mounted IVECO and Bremach) Panda 4x4s were practically the only cars…

 

[The Pretender]

If the TwinAir and FIREFLY engines used the same shape for connection with gearboxes, a Panda 4x4 Hybrid would make the most sense.
It will be slower than TwinAir 4x4's but still more capable than a fwd Panda Hybrid.
And the old 169 Panda 4x4 had also only 69 hp.

 

[Marcus Daly]

Wehn I was in Susa, towns north of Turin and the Vale De Aosta (apart from the Caribinieri Alfas, the snowplough mounted IVECO and Bremach) Panda 4x4s were practically the only cars…

And apart from ”towns north of Turin”? Most of Italy never sees a snowflake, and few Italians work as hill farmers.

And as I’ve said before, Stellantis wants to sell Jeeps, not Pandas.

 

[porta]

And apart from ”towns north of Turin”?

Most of Italy never sees a snowflake, and few Italians work as hill farmers.

I’ve not been to the rest of Italy, yet, Turin had everything from every marque and, like here, there were lots of stupidly sized 4x4s. I doubt the ones I saw were hill farmers cars, everyone and his dog had one.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The 3 and 4 cylinder FIREFLY engines are both Normal Aspirated and turbo versions.
The 4 cylinder normal aspirated engine is not used in Europe, instead they use the 3 cylinder FIREFLY turbo engine in Europe.
The biggest challenge is what engines could be fitted to the 4x4 gearbox, besides the TwinAir engine.

The 5 speed 4x4 gearbox was used with four cylinder diesel ok. The TA used six gears, but mainly to give ultra low first gear to compare to diesel’s low speed torque. So should be room for three or even four cylinder petrol power with five gears…?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

… as I’ve said before, Stellantis wants to sell Jeeps, not Pandas.

But they also make and sell Peugeot and Vauxhall/Opel 4x4s as well (basically the same car underneath). So why not a Fiat badged one too?
This report (https://www.just-auto.com/features/stellantis-future-models-fiat-abarth-lancia/ ) is a year old but may still hold true? it suggested:
“The January 2021 merger with Groupe PSA meant delays for a now former FCA-only project for a new A segment model: the Panda Cross’ successor. Production of ICE-powered variants should now commence in April 2023, followed soon after by an EV. The architecture has switched to STLA Small, formerly known as CMP (combustion engines) and e-CMP (electric).

“This model will share much with a small Alfa Romeo tentatively called Brennero and a small Jeep, each of which should also be built at the Tychy factory and available in EV form with an electric back axle.”

 

[StevenRB45]

But they also make and sell Peugeot and Vauxhall/Opel 4x4s as well (basically the same car underneath). So why not a Fiat badged one too?
This report (https://www.just-auto.com/features/stellantis-future-models-fiat-abarth-lancia/ ) is a year old but may still hold true? it suggested:
“The January 2021 merger with Groupe PSA meant delays for a now former FCA-only project for a new A segment model: the Panda Cross’ successor. Production of ICE-powered variants should now commence in April 2023, followed soon after by an EV. The architecture has switched to STLA Small, formerly known as CMP (combustion engines) and e-CMP (electric).

“This model will share much with a small Alfa Romeo tentatively called Brennero and a small Jeep, each of which should also be built at the Tychy factory and available in EV form with an electric back axle.”

If it's on CMP architecture now the chances of it not using the puretech engines and using firefly or twin air are about the same as finding a snowflake in the Sahara.

 

[JaffaOrange]

Regarding a new Panda model: If it is a new model it will require all of the following to comply with the European General Safety Regulation (already in force for homologation of new models since July 2022 ).

• Reversing detection
• Emergency lane keeping systems
• Advanced emergency braking – a system that starts braking manoeuvres automatically if a collision is imminent
• Intelligent speed assistance – a system that helps the driver not to speed
• Emergency stop signal
• Driver drowsiness and attention warning
• Event data recorders, which will support accident research in the future

The requirements will also apply to all new vehicles registered from July 2024, which I guess will be the end of the Panda as we know and love it. Only 18 months away.

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

Think I'll hang on to my TA 4x4, it might increase in value!

 

[Marcus Daly]

Last month with my dealer offered me what I paid for my two year old one to have it back. But what then?! It’s a very difficult car for which to find a like for like replacement.

 

[airsafari87]

Correct me if I’m wrong? But I’m sure that sometime in July 2022 Fiat became the first manufacturer to sell ONLY fully electric or hybrid vehicles?

I’m glad I got my TA 4x4 Cross when I did.

 

[The Pretender]

Correct me if I’m wrong? But I’m sure that sometime in July 2022 Fiat became the first manufacturer to sell ONLY fully electric or hybrid vehicles?

I’m glad I got my TA 4x4 Cross when I did.

So, that would mean 2 things for the Panda 4x4.
It will be the only FIAT without Hybrid when it come back in production, or they will stick a 3 cilinder Hybrid engine in it.
And i don't think they could still build TwinAir Turbo engines, so most logical is te assume it will get/have the 3 cylinder Hybrid with 70 hp.
Fiat could finish the ordered and already build TA 4x4, if there are any left, but i don't think the paused production was not only chip related, but engine as wel.

 

[airsafari87]

Taken straight from the official Fiat Press release last year.

‘2022 is a landmark year for Fiat – as of the 1st of July, 100% of our range will be electrified. That means we’ll only be producing and selling hybrid or all-electric vehicles. Fiat has long been committed to shaping the future of sustainable mobility, and this decision is a huge step forward on that journey.’

I think that puts the nail in the coffin for any new Pandas coming with the TA engine.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Taken straight from the official Fiat Press release last year.

‘2022 is a landmark year for Fiat – as of the 1st of July, 100% of our range will be electrified. That means we’ll only be producing and selling hybrid or all-electric vehicles. Fiat has long been committed to shaping the future of sustainable mobility, and this decision is a huge step forward on that journey.’

I think that puts the nail in the coffin for any new Pandas coming with the TA engine.

Probably….
However the term ‘hybrid’ is used in its widest sense by Fiat (and many other makes). Most are so-called Mild Hybrid, which is little more than start/stop that stops a little earlier (while the car is still rolling) and initially runs the car from the starter motor on setting off again. That (in theory) works with any engine as it’s all done by a combined alternator/starter motor and a fairly small battery tucked under the seat.

 

[The Pretender]

Probably….
However the term ‘hybrid’ is used in its widest sense by Fiat (and many other makes). Most are so-called Mild Hybrid, which is little more than start/stop that stops a little earlier (while the car is still rolling) and initially runs the car from the starter motor on setting off again. That (in theory) works with any engine as it’s all done by a combined alternator/starter motor and a fairly small battery tucked under the seat.

They should have done that with the 1242cc FIRE 8v VVT 69 hp engine, instead of developing a 3 cylinder engine.

 

[The Pretender]

Taken straight from the official Fiat Press release last year.

‘2022 is a landmark year for Fiat – as of the 1st of July, 100% of our range will be electrified. That means we’ll only be producing and selling hybrid or all-electric vehicles. Fiat has long been committed to shaping the future of sustainable mobility, and this decision is a huge step forward on that journey.’

I think that puts the nail in the coffin for any new Pandas coming with the TA engine.

For the FIAT 500 and Panda there is only the 3 cilinder Mild Hybrid engine available.
500 ICE production will end this year, so they only need a engine for the Panda 4x4, and that will not be anything new.
In case the Panda 4x4 is back in production till 2026, it will get like any other Panda de 70 hp Mild Hybrid engine.
Or 2023 will be used to deliver al produced TA 4x4 to there owners that ordered them before.
And then after that it will be the end of the Panda 4x4.

 

[The Panda Nut]

And apart from ”towns north of Turin”? Most of Italy never sees a snowflake, and few Italians work as hill farmers.

And as I’ve said before, Stellantis wants to sell Jeeps, not Pandas.

Then lets hope they go down smoking!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Fiat's new UK price list (issued January 2023) has been released: still no Panda 4x4. Basically one Panda and one Cross-lookalike, plus etc Garmin and (Red) specials - all with 70bhp mild hybrid. Looking at the specs, does seem they're using up all the left over bits - red 4x4 Cross-style tow hook on other models now, and auto wipers and auto headlights on some too. All have full 5 seat set up as well. See the 2023 Price List via Fiat UK website...