Technical How the Panda 4x4 system works

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Technical How the Panda 4x4 system works

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After a bit of searching around, here (pasted images below) is the definitive explanation of how the 4x4 Panda works, direct from the Fiat eLEARN documentation. The system is indeed hydraulically operated and electronically controlled, with hydraulic pressure generated by a pump within the unit at the rear end of the propshaft. In this explanation it refers to the electronic control unit being under the driver's seat. In a RHD car this will be under the passenger seat.

The reference to two differentials: the first, the front one, is there on all front wheel drive cars and the second is at the back beyond the end of the propsahft. Crucially there is not a third, centre diff (as is found on Land Rovers), so there is a risk of transmission wind-up if 4x4 is forced to operate when not needed (such as on tarmac). As an aside, most modern 4x4x pickups (eg Ford Ranger/VW Amarok, Navara and D-max) also do not have a centre diff, and so also run as 2WD most of the time -- usually to the rear -- and (unlike teh Panda) cannot automatically engage 4x4. They also have a clear instruction to not turn on 4x4 on tarmac)

The TwinAir 4x4s have the 90 degree gears to drive to the propshaft (the idler gears) internally in the gearbox/front diff, and so share the same oil. Any damage to this drive requires the whole gearbox to be removed. On the diesel 4x4s, there is a separate power transfer unit (PTU) which has its own separate oil fill and drain and which can be removed independently from the gearbox/front diff.

Where it says here that upto 100% torque can be transmitted to the rear, it surely means that the maximum is a 50/50 split between front and rear?

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After a bit of searching around, here (pasted images below) is the definitive explanation of how the 4x4 Panda works, direct from the Fiat eLEARN documentation. The system is indeed hydraulically operated and electronically controlled, with hydraulic pressure generated by a pump within the unit at the rear end of the propshaft. In this explanation it refers to the electronic control unit being under the driver's seat. In a RHD car this will be under the passenger seat.

The reference to two differentials: the first, the front one, is there on all front wheel drive cars and the second is at the back beyond the end of the propsahft. Crucially there is not a third, centre diff (as is found on Land Rovers), so there is a risk of transmission wind-up if 4x4 is forced to operate when not needed (such as on tarmac). As an aside, most modern 4x4x pickups (eg Ford Ranger/VW Amarok, Navara and D-max) also do not have a centre diff, and so also run as 2WD most of the time -- usually to the rear -- and don't automatically engage 4x4. They also have a clear instruction to not turn on 4x4 on tarmac)

The TwinAir 4x4s have the 90 degree gears to drive to the propshaft (the idler gears) internally in the gearbox/front diff, and so share the same oil. Any damage to this drive requires the whole gearbox to be removed. On the diesel 4x4s, there is a separate power transfer unit (PTU) which has its own separate oil fill and drain and which can be removed independently from the gearbox/front diff.

Where it says here that upto 100% torque can be transmitted to the rear, it surely means that the maximum is a 50/50 split between front and rear?

View attachment 458851

View attachment 458850
Excellent post! Which makes sense of why there might be a filter in there (part 17 listed here https://awd.tech/apps/catalog/transmission/rdm (312/319)-fiat#part_K18 )

If you follow the link that whole clutch pack/(now we know) pump unit is remarkably cheap in the order of things Fiat!
 
Excellent post! Which makes sense of why there might be a filter in there (part 17 listed here https://awd.tech/apps/catalog/transmission/rdm (312/319)-fiat#part_K18 )

If you follow the link that whole clutch pack/(now we know) pump unit is remarkably cheap in the order of things Fiat!
Digging around in the parts it seems the solenoid valve is shared by Merc A and B class... Does this imply similar technology in their 4Matic set up (if even available on A and B class - IDK)?
 
Armed with this insight it adds emphasis to the correct diff oil level - I'm thinking!
And, crucially, the need to to ensure the oil is not contaimated with water (likely after driving through floods as water will be drawn in via the breathers when a hot rear diff is rapidly cooled by being plunged into cold water). I didn't really understand this effect, until finding the diffs and gearbox on my (new to me) 2013 Landy all have long breather pipes that come up to the bulkhead, to allow them to breathe and not draw in water. Years back I drained and refilled the PTU on my 4x4 Panda and it came out looking like cold coffee - what I now know to have been an oil/water emulsion). I'd best look at the rear diff too now hadn't I!
 
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Digging around in the parts it seems the solenoid valve is shared by Merc A and B class... Does this imply similar technology in their 4Matic set up (if even available on A and B class - IDK)?
I'd doubt its unique to the Panda, and was made Magna Steyr, who, yes, also make the 4Matic system for MB
 
And, crucially, the need to to ensure the oil is not contaimated with water (likely after driving through floods as water will be drawn in via the vents when a hot rear diff is rapidly cooled by being made cold and wet). I didn't really understand this effect, until finding the diffs and gearbox on my (new to me) 2013 Landy all have long breather pipes that comes up to the bulkhead, to allow them to breathe and not draw in water. Years back I drained and refilled the PTU on the Panda and it came out looking like cold coffee - what I now know to have been an oil/water emulsion). i'd best look at the rear diff too now hadn't I!
I did do the rear diff oil on the Panda a while back and it came out OK but with the standing water we've had recently in North Herts I might be going back in there (having the TA has some advantages then!).

After the last snow and related floods I did note some odd whirring after going through some water that was certainly up to the doors (Hooks Cross) I was wonder about it being the centre bearing as it went away after a bit?
 
I did do the rear diff oil on the Panda a while back and it came out OK but with the standing water we've had recently in North Herts I might be going back in there (having the TA has some advantages then!).

After the last snow and related floods I did note some odd whirring after going through some water that was certainly up to the doors (Hooks Cross) I was wonder about it being the centre bearing as it went away after a bit?
Probably debris caught up in the cage that protects the centre bearing. In winter that fills with snow, which, if it freezes overnight, then leads to the most horrid grinding and scraping noises. And, as it happens Im just heading out to Hooks Cross now!
 
Where it says here that upto 100% torque can be transmitted to the rear, it surely means that the maximum is a 50/50 split between front and rear?

Let's assume about 100% of the torque is directed to the front wheels. The car drives on tarmac. Now it leaves the road and enters a snowy and slippery path up hill. Because the front wheels start to slip, there is basically no more torque transmitted to the front wheels. There is also a mismatch between engine RPM, front wheel speed and the real speed of the vehicle, as evident from rear wheel speed, which remain slow. So I presume that the ECU notices this mismatch and the electronically coupled rear wheel drive will engage. Once it is engaged, this will slow down engine RPM and front wheel spinning speed as now the rear wheels gripping on the snow act as a resistance. This basically results in the front wheels still slipping, but only with the same RPM as the rear wheels, since the rear wheels now have grip, and the vehicle accelerates and goes up the snowy hill. Therefore, the torque available on the rear wheels can reach 100 % in case there is no torque transmitted by the front wheels.

This is my understanding of this, I don't know if it's correct.

Now, if the real wheels start to slip, but the front wheels have good grip on the surface, there won't be a mismatch between wheel speeds, since the rear wheels, if they remain coupled, will not spin faster than the front wheels which have grip.

If only one side (left or right) is slipping and the other is not, I believe the slipping wheel is automatically actively braked by the "deceleration anti-slip system". That's also the case for the standard front wheel drive, I think.
 
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You have to ask why Fiat didnt think it relevant to incude this in either the sales blurb or the handbook!!!! Sell a technically advanced product and keep quiet about its workings and clear merits. Thats really good salesmanship......
I think they just wanted to show it’s fully automatic (they do talk of torque on demand and auto-engagement) and as a result simple to live with. I’m sure the handbook for my 2013 4x4 was more clear about not manually forcing 4x4 on tarmac… the 2018 book infers it but isn’t so prescriptive. What we now know is that it’s a much ‘smarter’ system than that used in vehicles much greater in size and cost. Clever Panda.
 
I think they just wanted to show it’s fully automatic (they do talk of torque on demand and auto-engagement) and as a result simple to live with. I’m sure the handbook for my 2013 4x4 was more clear about not manually forcing 4x4 on tarmac… the 2018 book infers it but isn’t so prescriptive. What we now know is that it’s a much ‘smarter’ system than that used in vehicles much greater in size and cost. Clever Panda.
It's good that talk the torque, for sure.

Here all week...
 
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