General Tackling Road Noise

[Shuggie]

My 2009 Panda 1.2 Dynamic goes and handles really well on standard 13" steel wheels with Toyo 155/80/13 tyres, but road noise is pretty horrendous, particularly over the sort of cheaply 'dressed' roads that we have in the UK. The amount of road noise is very much surface dependent, which rules out faults, and I think this is characteristic of all Pandas; certainly all mine have been much the same.

But, this thread talking about alloy wheel replacement https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/replaced-my-steels-for-alloys.514750/post-4797055 got me thinking because the OP mentions reduced road noise after fitting a set of 6Jx15" 500 alloys and 185/55-15 tyres. Much larger than I'd consider fitting, but interesting nevertheless.

Has anyone experienced lower road noise with 5J or 5.5J 14" wheels, alloy or steel, and wider 175/65 R14 tyres of decent brand/quality, compared to bog standard 13" wheels and 155/80/13 tyres?

 

[koalar]

You don't say which toyo

Toyo nano energy are some of the quickest tyres around

The difference in noise will be from changing make and model of tyre not size

 

[Shuggie]

Toyo Nano Energy 3

 

[koalar]

Toyo Nano Energy 3

69db is going to be hard to beat

Tyre pressure makes a difference

There's not much sound deadening in the panda, road noise will always be worse than a higher end car

 

[Shuggie]

View attachment 464572

69db is going to be hard to beat

Tyre pressure makes a difference

There's not much sound deadening in the panda, road noise will always be worse than a higher end car

These tyre noise data are for external drive by noise, and bear little relation to internal cabin noise, but I'm sure you know that.

Anyway, I'd be very interested to hear from other Panda owners who have managed to tame excessive road noise, and I'm still intrigued by the comments made by @Kernow 70 regarding lower noise after fitting larger alloy wheels and tyres.

 

[irc]

Biggest improvement in road noise I've made on a Panda was to change all 4 wheel bearings (technically it only needed 3, but it seemed sensible to do the full set) and fit new top mounts.
I didn't really find much difference between Toyo NE3s on 13" steels and NE3s on 14" alloys.
However, I did stop using NE3s last year, after having a run of deformed and delaminating tyres.
Uniroyal all season tyres are definitely a bit louder.
(Not at all sure if the problem was the NE3s or the dire state of roads round here, but after 7 wrecked tyres across 4 Pandas I thought I would try some others.)

 

[Shuggie]

Biggest improvement in road noise I've made on a Panda was to change all 4 wheel bearings (technically it only needed 3, but it seemed sensible to do the full set) and fit new top mounts.
I didn't really find much difference between Toyo NE3s on 13" steels and NE3s on 14" alloys.
However, I did stop using NE3s last year, after having a run of deformed and delaminating tyres.
Uniroyal all season tyres are definitely a bit louder.
(Not at all sure if the problem was the NE3s or the dire state of roads round here, but after 7 wrecked tyres across 4 Pandas I thought I would try some others.)

Interesting - I have changed the strut top mounts plus both rear wheel bearings because all that was easy, but not the front bearings which in any case rotate smoothly and without any play (assessed without drive shafts and brake discs). Wheel bearing noise would, I assume, be consistent whatever the road surface? If I had a suitable hydraulic press I'd change the front bearings anyway, since I have a pair of the correct SKF bearings to hand. The new top mounts, along with Lemförder lower arms, almost certainly contributed to much better steering feel and much more civilised handling of small road bumps/ridges etc, but overall road noise was unchanged.

Road noise in my Panda does very much depend on the surface, and it definitely does not like the 'loose gravel' surface dressing that Norfolk County Council seems to favour. I believe the French do these things much better!

If I can find a set of OEM 14" steel wheels at sensible cost (even scruffy ones that I can refurbish), I'd like to try some Goodyear Vector All Season tyres, which have previously impressed me, although not on a Panda.

 

[jrkitching]

My 2009 Panda 1.2 Dynamic goes and handles really well on standard 13" steel wheels with Toyo 155/80/13 tyres, but road noise is pretty horrendous, particularly over the sort of cheaply 'dressed' roads that we have in the UK. The amount of road noise is very much surface dependent, which rules out faults, and I think this is characteristic of all Pandas; certainly all mine have been much the same.

It's also very much speed dependent.

Cruising at 50/55mph is way, way quieter than cruising at 70mph. 70mph on the quietest tyres you can buy will still be noisier than 55mph on the noisiest.

Fuel economy is way better at lower speeds, too.

 

[irc]

I do remember the NE3s making a strange hum on the newly laid tarmac section of the A11 between Wymondham and Norwich, which doesn't happen on the Uniroyals. But they make a different kind of hum on the new tarmac of the A140 near Swainsthorpe which I don't remember happening with the NE3s.
However I'm talking about a Panda Active Eco with about 140k miles and a serious lack of servicing for much of it's life.
It had a mix of worn low budget 13" tyres on, leaking exhaust flexi pipe, and a bent passenger door that didn't seal at the top.
The wheel bearings were about as bad as I've seen them get, and the top mounts were disintegrating badly, despite having been re-used by whoever fitted the new dampers.
Noise reduction from that starting point to where it is now was all low-hanging fruit.

 

[rmjbn1]

I'd be interested in what you find @Shuggie We have a mix of smooth roads and rough lanes with surface dressing, and the road noise change on transition from one to the other is quite shocking (Kumho Ecowing 155/80R13).

I'd been thinking sound deadening of the wheel arches / footwells might be the best solution

 

[Shuggie]

I'd be interested in what you find @Shuggie We have a mix of smooth roads and rough lanes with surface dressing, and the road noise change on transition from one to the other is quite shocking (Kumho Ecowing 155/80R13).

I'd been thinking sound deadening of the wheel arches / footwells might be the best solution

This year, when weather becomes warmer and kinder, I'll apply Dynamat-style sound deadening to the internal floorpan , arches etc. I did the roof, boot floor and doors last year, but that made no difference to overall noise. The doors do shut with a lovely 'thunk' though!

 

[koalar]

It's also very much speed dependent.

Cruising at 50/55mph is way, way quieter than cruising at 70mph. 70mph on the quietest tyres you can buy will still be noisier than 55mph on the noisiest.

Fuel economy is way better at lower speeds, too.

Correct

It is what it is

High end cars have there panels coved in a vibration absorbing material and sound absorbing baulk

Better sealing doors and windows and so on

The larger the tread pattern the noisier the tyre, take a mud tyre as an extreme example

To turn a panda into a mercedes a class would loose what the panda does well, light and economical

Like for like, same make and model tyre the lower profile should be worse, in reality I had a 13" and 14" panda at the same time and noise was roughly the same, but the ability to absorb bumps is worse on the 14"

 

[jrkitching]

It is what it is

a basic but economical city car that's one of the cheapest to buy and run, period. It's perfectly capable of much longer trips, but taking it a little slower and having a break or two along the way can make a big difference to how you'll be feeling at the end of the journey.

Personally I like to stretch my legs every couple of hours in the Panda, the biggest limiting factor for me being the seats.

A small change to the way you plan longer journeys could work out better than chucking a (relatively) lot of money at different tyres and more soundproofing.

High end cars have there panels coved in a vibration absorbing material and sound absorbing baulk

and quite possibly double glazed side windows (which also make quite a difference to wind noise at higher speeds)

 

[Shuggie]

a basic but economical city car that's one of the cheapest to buy and run, period. It's perfectly capable of much longer trips, but taking it a little slower and having a break or two along the way can make a big difference to how you'll be feeling at the end of the journey.

Personally I like to stretch my legs every couple of hours in the Panda, the biggest limiting factor for me being the seats.

A small change to the way you plan longer journeys could work out better than chucking a (relatively) lot of money at different tyres and more soundproofing.

and quite possibly double glazed side windows (which also make quite a difference to wind noise at higher speeds)

I take the view that it is better to spend a little money here and there to keep a cheap, £35 a year tax, little car going, ad infinitum. I regularly undertake trips of over 400 miles each way in my Panda, so noise is something that spoils an otherwise delightful little car, and I would like to do something about that.

Soundproofing is not expensive, nor are different wheels/tyres, in the Greater Scheme of modern motoring and where our political masters wish to take us, at genuinely ruinous cost.

The Panda is my opt-out from such lunacy, but I won't be deafened in the process.

 

[koalar]

Could try some contisilent

There are a hard rubber so summer only tyre

Fragile and don't wear well apparently

But never tried them myself

ContiSilent™

ContiSilent™ is a tire noise-reducing technology developed by Continental.

www.continental-tires.com

Not sure if the sound deadening is the same on all models, I have three some have sound proofing under the bonnet some don't