Technical Suspension / Front hub issues

[Lord Azrael]

I'm just in the process of doing the suspension change on my wife's 2010 1.3, and of course everything is being difficult! Everything is seized solid and being a real pain and the pinch bolt for the front of the wishbone has just sheared! Does anyone know whether the bolt is threaded through the actual bracket or does it just slide through so I know how careful to be whilst trying to drill it through? Cheers

 

[bugsymike]

I'm just in the process of doing the suspension change on my wife's 2010 1.3, and of course everything is being difficult! Everything is seized solid and being a real pain and the pinch bolt for the front of the wishbone has just sheared! Does anyone know whether the bolt is threaded through the actual bracket or does it just slide through so I know how careful to be whilst trying to drill it through? Cheers

I think you will find it is a nut and bolt that once lined up with the groove in the ball joint it should slide straight through so that the nut and bolt pinch the bottom of suspension to hold it tight to the ball joint.
Obviously you are removing so I would just give any parts that you are undoing plenty of oil to help.
Does it like like this one on a Fiat Doblo? you may be able to see the groove in the shaft of the ball joint that allows the bolt to slide past and stop pin from dropping out.
You will need a good quality nut and bolt of same dimensions.
If it looks like the second photo which is a Panda then it is as I said. So just give it lots of oil and you should be able to drive the remains of the bolt out of the hole if lucky.
I would just oil it and use a good metal punch with a big hammer and knock it out.

 

[koalar]

7601061 bolt
15503621 nut

I fitted mazda/ford pinch bolts (£2.40 Inc VAT each)., wrong pitch but everything else is identical, plus I can pick them off the self at my local motor factor

grade 10.9

You will sear them most of the time if you try and turn the bolt in the hole


Undo the nut, first

Just slides out

Lump of brass over the end and a few firm wacks

3lb club hammer

If you don't have a heavy hammer I would get one. It will help to seperate the two parts later as well

Now it's broken

A 8mm drift or slightly smaller

You can get away with an old bolt or similar if you haven't got a punch


Done literally hundreds, never had to drill one yet


Be careful with the torque

It's 32nm

Some YouTube videos and manuals are wrong

 

[Lord Azrael]

7601061 bolt
15503621 nut

I fitted mazda/ford pinch bolts (£2.40 Inc VAT each)., wrong pitch but everything else is identical, plus I can pick them off the self at my local motor factor

grade 10.9

You will sear them most of the time if you try and turn the bolt in the hole


Undo the nut, first

Just slides out

Lump of brass over the end and a few firm wacks

3lb club hammer

If you don't have a heavy hammer I would get one. It will help to seperate the two parts later as well

View attachment 464715


Now it's broken

A 8mm drift or slightly smaller




View attachment 464716


You can get away with an old bolt or similar


Done literally hundreds, never had to drill one yet


Be careful with the torque

It's 32nm

Some YouTube videos and manuals are wrong

Cheers. I did actually get the nut off fine, its just the bolt that's seized into the housing and had left it soaking in release compound for a few days too. At least I know it just knocks out as that will make life easier. I've got LOTS of big hammers!

 

[koalar]

Yep they can be a pain, no amount of soaking will help, the two parts have grown together, so the oil has no way to get in, I post some pictures of something I left soaking for 24H and when it was finely opened the threads completely were dry

Shock is the way to go, once there's a little movement penetrating oil will then help

At least if the last person to put them on did it correctly, the nut should be towards the front, which makes getting a swing slightly easier

I fell for it once by tying to loosen it by turning the head of the bolt, seem logical but 8 mm Is just too thin, drift them out is the way to go

 

[bugsymike]

I am fortunate , if all else fails I have a 3/4 drive Makita 110volt impact wrench from the old days.

 

[DaveMcT]

The bolt should be fitted with nut at the front, as its sheared turn the wheel outwards and use a 8mm (7mm is better) to bash it out. You will then struggle the extract the ball joint pin from the clamp. I use a flat blade screwdriver as a wedge to CAREFULLY spread the clamp. It needs to be fat enough the spread the clamp before the tip hits the pin.

When reassembling, use plenty of copper anti seize on the pin, and pinch bolt. Make sure the pin is sitting with the groove aligned with the pinch bolt. The bolt should simply slide in.

Fitting the new bottom arm and be "fun". I fit the back bolt first but leave it loose. Then red rubber grease the front bush and lever it into place. If you do it the other way around it gets really hard to align the rear bolt. Of course, it's all much easier when you have a car lift. I don't so this is how I do it.

 

[DTanner]

I'm just in the process of doing the suspension change on my wife's 2010 1.3, and of course everything is being difficult! Everything is seized solid and being a real pain and the pinch bolt for the front of the wishbone has just sheared! Does anyone know whether the bolt is threaded through the actual bracket or does it just slide through so I know how careful to be whilst trying to drill it through? Cheers

Same happened me, all seized up.
The pinch both is not threaded to anything, except the nut. You can hammer it out if the nut is removed. I had to angle grind the nut off and hammer it through it was a painful job. Make sure you read the instructions carefully for reassembly.

My post is here and has some details.

 

[bugsymike]

Same happened me, all seized up.
The pinch both is not threaded to anything, except the nut. You can hammer it out if the nut is removed. I had to angle grind the nut off and hammer it through it was a painful job. Make sure you read the instructions carefully for reassembly.

My post is here and has some details.

It often helps with many suspension jobs involving rusted nuts and bolts to go around oiling them the day before, this gives it a time to soak in and can save hassle later. I use engine oil in a squirt can rather than WD40 which can be a bit thin.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

It often helps with many suspension jobs involving rusted nuts and bolts to go around oiling them the day before, this gives it a time to soak in and can save hassle later. I use engine oil in a squirt can rather than WD40 which can be a bit thin.

All good advice being given above. Regarding the penetrating oil, I prefer a dedicated product, like Plus Gas or Another product which is specifically formulated to penetrate. WD40 is a very good product but, unless you're buying one of their family of specific products then the traditional WD40 is not actually so good used as a releasing oil.

I've done a fair few of these over the years, but not as many as koalar so I bow to his knowledge. The only comment I'd make is that I find the bolt is often slightly bent due to the way it pulls the fitting together. Therefore I always fit new ones on reassembly - needs to be the right bolt though, a general purpose 8.8 high tensile is not advised.

If you're ever doing the struts themselves you can expect the retaining bolts - hub to shocker, two per side - to be just as reluctant. I always buy new ones of these too.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The ones I have done were not threaded through.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The ones I have done were not threaded through.

My experience too.

 

[Lord Azrael]

All good advice being given above. Regarding the penetrating oil, I prefer a dedicated product, like Plus Gas or Another product which is specifically formulated to penetrate. WD40 is a very good product but, unless you're buying one of their family of specific products then the traditional WD40 is not actually so good used as a releasing oil.

I've done a fair few of these over the years, but not as many as koalar so I bow to his knowledge. The only comment I'd make is that I find the bolt is often slightly bent due to the way it pulls the fitting together. Therefore I always fit new ones on reassembly - needs to be the right bolt though, a general purpose 8.8 high tensile is not advised.

If you're ever doing the struts themselves you can expect the retaining bolts - hub to shocker, two per side - to be just as reluctant. I always buy new ones of these too.

It's plusgas I always use. Fortunately all the otrher bolts have come out easily and I've got new replacements, it's just this one thats being a right pain.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

It's plusgas I always use. Fortunately all the otrher bolts have come out easily and I've got new replacements, it's just this one thats being a right pain.

Aye, they can be quite tight but at least now you know the hole is smooth bored - ie, no thread. I'm fortunate in that I have compressed air and an air hammer which makes pretty short work of this sort of thing. I apologies if I'm telling you how to "suck eggs" but I find a liberal dosing with the Plus Gas and then I would "attack" it with a parallel punch and my 2lb hammer and I'd give it several quite hard - but not humongous - hits from one end (trying to drive it out) and then an equal number of hits from the other end (trying to drive it further in) followed by a squirt of the Plus Gas and then repeat the process. I'm a great believer in repeated vibration whether delivered by a hammer or something like an air hammer. Over the years I've proved to myself that repeated moderate blows often get the job done when getting really violent with it often either breaks part of a casting or swells the bolt in the hole or peens the end over thus making the job much harder. Vibration is the great thing.

 

[Decronium]

Glad to see you have new hardware. For reference (And anyone who is reading this who requires the information), you should replace the pinch bolts and nuts with NEW Fiat bolts 7601061 and 15503621 either from S4P or a dealer. They are rated correctly and made specifically for the job, they are not expensive and usually available.

 

[DaveMcT]

I don't have an air hammer but do have a hefty Bosch SDS drill that has a hammer action. It bashes concrete really fast but did very little to that nasty clamp bolt. As Jock says, firm thumps from both ends will loosen it.

I usually buy the Fiat bolts from Shop 4 Parts but 10.8 high tensile also works. Cover the bolt end-to-end with anti seize and ideally do inside the bolt hole and the slot and the balljoint pin hole if you can. Mine have always come out fine when done that way.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I don't have an air hammer but do have a hefty Bosch SDS drill that has a hammer action. It bashes concrete really fast but did very little to that nasty clamp bolt. As Jock says, firm thumps from both ends will loosen it.

I usually buy the Fiat bolts from Shop 4 Parts but 10.8 high tensile also works. Cover the bolt end-to-end with anti seize and ideally do inside the bolt hole and the slot and the balljoint pin hole if you can. Mine have always come out fine when done that way.

I do that too. I was a little worried putting anti seize "everywhere" might allow the ball joint pin to fret and work loose but it's never happened to me on any of the vehicles I've done it too, not just the FIATs, but VAG stuff mainly.

 

[jrkitching]

I do that too.

And me!!

Regarding the penetrating oil, I prefer a dedicated product, like Plus Gas or Another product which is specifically formulated to penetrate. WD40 is a very good product but, unless you're buying one of their family of specific products then the traditional WD40 is not actually so good used as a releasing oil.

I make up my own; equal parts of acetone and ATF.

Be careful, especially if working on a hot engine, the resulting product is extremely flammable.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

And me!!


I make up my own; equal parts of acetone and ATF.

Be careful, especially if working on a hot engine, the resulting product is extremely flammable.

I've always meant to experiment with "brewing" a mixture. It's just so much easier to buy the stuff off the shelf though.

My American acquaintance - he who's still restoring that Mk1 Corvette - is a great advocate of PB Blaster, which does seem to get the job done as well as Plus Gas. I'd really like to try some Kroil too but it's so much more expensive to buy over here that I'll probably never do that