Technical Sudden large oil leak. 16V Punto

[judderbar]

I overfilled the oil level by half a liter but no oil leaks for 2 weeks. A few days ago i hit a speed bump HARD. But no oil leaks after another trip, but there is a very loud cracking sound which i thought was either rear brakes or rear axle. Then suddenly there is a pool of oil under the car. Its appearing by that metal plate that sticks down between the engine and the bellhousing. I cleaned up, drained the oil lower, but same thing happened and this time it is also coming from the clutch inspection rubber bung. Its not coming from the top part of the engine.

I am supposing its the crankshaft oil seal. Do these things suddenly fail like this? Its not a minor leak, its dripping down after a trip every few seconds.

 

[bugsymike]

I overfilled the oil level by half a liter but no oil leaks for 2 weeks. A few days ago i hit a speed bump HARD. But no oil leaks after another trip, but there is a very loud cracking sound which i thought was either rear brakes or rear axle. Then suddenly there is a pool of oil under the car. Its appearing by that metal plate that sticks down between the engine and the bellhousing. I cleaned up, drained the oil lower, but same thing happened and this time it is also coming from the clutch inspection rubber bung. Its not coming from the top part of the engine.

I am supposing its the crankshaft oil seal. Do these things suddenly fail like this? Its not a minor leak, its dripping down after a trip every few seconds.

If it was only a half litre overfull it shouldn't cause a problem, but if a lot more, then going on a steep hill I have heard of Fords in the old days where it actually hit the crankshaft with catastrophic affect, as an apprentice we had a customer with a Morris 1000 come in for petrol with her car smoking badly and oil leaking everywhere, she had filled the engine oil till she could see it in the rocker cover!!! After correcting it the car carried on fine!!!
I suppose with yours, if it caused a pressure build up it could force the crankshaft rear oil seal to blow out behind the flywheel, but I have never heard of it happening.
The concern is the cracking noise as well, indicating something breaking, as an oil seal would be quiet falling out.
It does look like you could be in for a bit of work!

 

[judderbar]

Thanks. hopefully the cracking noise was something else breaking!

 

[AnthonyH]

I had the sump leak from the almost same place, with a similar effect. So you might be lucky, but its probably the crankshaft oil seal.

Good luck!

 

[judderbar]

I managed to break the clutch hose. the quick release end broke off by me being tired and stupid. Nobody has this hose even though they still make the master and slave cylinder. In Finland cars get dismantled and parts are stored. :-( I am still searching. It has broken where the clip fits. I suppose the broken end could be welded and machined and the hose rebuilt?

Fiat part from our forums eper 55187560. Nothing found. That quick release end might be on alfa cars and renault 1.8 laguna. Alfa part is about 90 euro if it can be found.

I suppose there are a few sitting in Uk scrap yards?

 

[bugsymike]

What I would do is take the parts to a good hydraulic hose specialist and he would make up a new one using your ends possibly. I had one here that could do anything from large digger hydraulic ram pipes, to car power steering pipes,to pressure washer hoses and most in between.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Use Google image search (your own picture). Other Fiat (and Alfa) models had that type of connector too...

 

[judderbar]

What I would do is take the parts to a good hydraulic hose specialist and he would make up a new one using your ends possibly. I had one here that could do anything from large digger hydraulic ram pipes, to car power steering pipes,to pressure washer hoses and most in between.

the end is broken. but i have been given the names of people who can make special fittings and hoses plus the name of a company that can find available new parts. Meanwhile it was not the engine oil seal. I thought i could tell the difference between engine oil and gear box oil! The oil was very black and a bit smelly so i was wondering about that since i just changed the oil The input bearing is a bit loose.

 

[judderbar]

Thanks for the idea but I tried google image search thats where i found the renaults have them. I guess a made for me part is going to cost a bit of money. Silly me for breaking it!

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks for the idea but I tried google image search thats where i found the renaults have them. I guess a made for me part is going to cost a bit of money. Silly me for breaking it!

I had a 55 plate Doblo 1.9jtd with the input bearing badly worn it damaged the gearbox by allowing the gears inside to be so loosely in mesh they broke.
Fortunately I had priced that in when I bought the vehicle and was able to buy a s/h but recently reconditioned gearbox.
I hope you can get away with a new front bearing in the gearbox and an oil seal.

 

[judderbar]

I had a 55 plate Doblo 1.9jtd with the input bearing badly worn it damaged the gearbox by allowing the gears inside to be so loosely in mesh they broke.
Fortunately I had priced that in when I bought the vehicle and was able to buy a s/h but recently reconditioned gearbox.
I hope you can get away with a new front bearing in the gearbox and an oil seal.

This is the 3rd time i am replacing this bearing. actually 4 but one time the bearing was reasonably good. The original seal was in good condition but i replaced it last time i did all the bearings and seals from onestopbearingshop uk. The original seal looks ok apart from the screw holes from getting it out.

Next task is to get the seal. Corteco part number 12014345B cross references from their web site to fiat 40004670 and they say it fits the fiat punto. So hopefully i can get that ordered locally.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

This is the 3rd time i am replacing this bearing.

We used to have a member on here years ago, who had several gear boxes and several bearings, I don’t know what he did but he was the killer of Punto gearboxes.

Sometimes if the bearing has over heated it can warp or distort the metal around it, meaning they then wear out quicker the next time

 

[judderbar]

We used to have a member on here years ago, who had several gear boxes and several bearings, I don’t know what he did but he was the killer of Punto gearboxes.

Sometimes if the bearing has over heated it can warp or distort the metal around it, meaning they then wear out quicker the next timI

We used to have a member on here years ago, who had several gear boxes and several bearings, I don’t know what he did but he was the killer of Punto gearboxes.

Sometimes if the bearing has over heated it can warp or distort the metal around it, meaning they then wear out quicker the next time

My best guess with this one was it was ok until the cage popped out. I think it is just a one sided cage held in place with tiny easy to break clips.

Possibly i can come up with a DIY fix for the broken hose.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Seals are available worldwide, no problem. All C514-family gearboxes have same seal.

 

[judderbar]

Thanks. I already tracked down that seal to Corteco and had to order it from a Norwegian company who said it would take 1-3 days. I have hopefully fixed the broken hose by 45% silver solder brazing a 4.5mm Cu/Ni brake pipe into the 5mm drilled parts as shown. Tested to 7 bar. I almost finished building a bolt on hose holder so the weight of the hose is not working on that piece of pipe. So I just need the seal and hopefully I will have my wheels back again!

 

[bugsymike]

Thanks. I already tracked down that seal to Corteco and had to order it from a Norwegian company who said it would take 1-3 days. I have hopefully fixed the broken hose by 45% silver solder brazing a 4.5mm Cu/Ni brake pipe into the 5mm drilled parts as shown. Tested to 7 bar. I almost finished building a bolt on hose holder so the weight of the hose is not working on that piece of pipe. So I just need the seal and hopefully I will have my wheels back again!

Fingers crossed it does the job.
I tried silver solder on a neighbours son's power steering pipe, sadly it worked until road test.

 

[judderbar]

Fingers crossed it does the job.
I tried silver solder on a neighbours son's power steering pipe, sadly it worked until road test.

I built a little oven out of fire bricks outdoors and used Rothenberger Potasium Pentaborate and had a roofers propane Torch. Massive thing. The oven worked really well as the metal was red in shaded daylight for a long time after the flame went out. I tried this before indoors without the firebricks and it is next to impossible to get the metal sufficiently hot.