General Should I go for 2.3 (Euro 6d-Temp) or 2.2 (Euro 6d-Final) engine

[wilu]

Hey folks,

Posting for the first time here, so please be gentle with me

I'm looking at getting a Ducato for a camper van conversion next year, and I'm trying to navigate the vast amount of options with different engines. My understanding is that the ones until 2016 (Euro 5 compliant) are pretty reliable, but it's getting hard to find those with a low mileage (and also I'm a bit concerned about the ever increasing restrictions in Europe with low emission zones). The ones between 2016-2019 (Euro 6) seem to have quite a bit of issues with the double EGR, so I'm thinking on staying away from those.

But how about the 2019-2021 (2.3 liter, Euro 6d-Temp) and 2021-now (2.2 liter Euro 6d-Final)? I know these are pretty recent makes, especially the 2.2 liter one, so there's limited amount of info about reliability available. I would still appreciate any bit of info you could share on those. Are those considered more reliable than the double EGR one, or is it just too early to tell yet?

Cheers!

Edit: I should also mention that I'm looking at getting one with the manual transmission.

 

[linknet]

Hey folks,

Posting for the first time here, so please be gentle with me

I'm looking at getting a Ducato for a camper van conversion next year, and I'm trying to navigate the vast amount of options with different engines. My understanding is that the ones until 2016 (Euro 5 compliant) are pretty reliable, but it's getting hard to find those with a low mileage (and also I'm a bit concerned about the ever increasing restrictions in Europe with low emission zones). The ones between 2016-2019 (Euro 6) seem to have quite a bit of issues with the double EGR, so I'm thinking on staying away from those.

But how about the 2019-2021 (2.3 liter, Euro 6d-Temp) and 2021-now (2.2 liter Euro 6d-Final)? I know these are pretty recent makes, especially the 2.2 liter one, so there's limited amount of info about reliability available. I would still appreciate any bit of info you could share on those. Are those considered more reliable than the double EGR one, or is it just too early to tell yet?

Cheers!

Edit: I should also mention that I'm looking at getting one with the manual transmission.

Can't answer regarding reliability but the 2.2 litre is significantly smoother and noticeably quieter than the 2.3 litre.

 

[wilu]

Can't answer regarding reliability but the 2.2 litre is significantly smoother and noticeably quieter than the 2.3 litre.

That kind of comparison is also very interesting to me. Thank you!

 

[Googlebot]

We run a fleet of 500 at work.

The latest 2.2 ones have been plagued with problems with the emissions systems. The failure rate was 50% higher than previously with the 2.3 engines.

The mechanic I was speaking to was also complaining about the clutch on the newer ones. They were lasting 75,000 plus on the 2.3 models, the newer ones were having to be replaced at 25,000 and weren’t proving as robust at all.

I would be looking at the 2.3 if it was my money. Older and less refined but appear much more reliable.

 

[wilu]

We run a fleet of 500 at work.

The latest 2.2 ones have been plagued with problems with the emissions systems. The failure rate was 50% higher than previously with the 2.3 engines.

The mechanic I was speaking to was also complaining about the clutch on the newer ones. They were lasting 75,000 plus on the 2.3 models, the newer ones were having to be replaced at 25,000 and weren’t proving as robust at all.

I would be looking at the 2.3 if it was my money. Older and less refined but appear much more reliable.

This is very helpful! Thank you!

 

[rayc]

Can't complain about my 2017 2.3 150bhp euro 6b model.

 

[Reg 65]

Very happy with my Dec 2020 manufactured X2/90 2.3 140 manual gearbox maxi van 36.000 miles, 35mpg
Only problem has been a faulty soot sensor, but with something like 150 sensors on it not surprising one became faulty.
Only consequence of its failure was bringing the engine management light on, half hour job and got it done free of charge under warranty after a bit of a battle (apparently nobody wants to do warranty jobs)

 

[Reg 65]

Can't answer regarding reliability but the 2.2 litre is significantly smoother and noticeably quieter than the 2.3 litre.

Yes I found my 2.2 Puma engined Citroen relay quieter than the 2.3 Ducato. But I wouldn't prefer the Citroen because the piston tops melted when I gave it some welly up a long motorway hill. The Ducato sounds like the exhaust has been tuned for the Italian market to roar like a sports car the Italians love. I noticed the difference in engine sound as soon as I drove it new out of the garage. But both are quiet enough, noise level is still perfectly acceptable so I wouldn't be influenced by that.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Great to see an up front researcher.!

 

[wilu]

We run a fleet of 500 at work.

The latest 2.2 ones have been plagued with problems with the emissions systems. The failure rate was 50% higher than previously with the 2.3 engines.

The mechanic I was speaking to was also complaining about the clutch on the newer ones. They were lasting 75,000 plus on the 2.3 models, the newer ones were having to be replaced at 25,000 and weren’t proving as robust at all.

I would be looking at the 2.3 if it was my money. Older and less refined but appear much more reliable.

Have you heard if there's any noticeable difference between the different variants within the Euro 6d-Temp 2.3 litre engine family? I've understood those are all the same engine, but the 120, 140 and 180 variants have different tunes to achieve different amount of power.

 

[Googlebot]

Have you heard if there's any noticeable difference between the different variants within the Euro 6d-Temp 2.3 litre engine family? I've understood those are all the same engine, but the 120, 140 and 180 variants have different tunes to achieve different amount of power.

Sorry, no idea.

 

[wilu]

Sorry, no idea.

No worries, thanks anyway!

 

[Reg 65]

I read somewhere that there are mechanical differences with the 180 - nitrided crankshaft & different bearings or whatever
Sorry I have lost the weblink
But if it was just different software there would be no justification for the large difference in price
Something to be aware of if thinking of aftermarket software to get more power

 

[wilu]

That's a good point. This is something that I need to look into more as well.

 

[marcostig]

My euro 4 2.3 2009 has been brilliant yes older one but 33mpg long drive to itlay and back spain and france next year,never missed a beat has 56.000 on clock now.I see alot of newer one's have dreadful issues for such a new engine.Just my take on it..

 

[Newholland Tech]

Can anyone confirm if the new 2.2 Tier6 final in a 2024/25 Ducato is an Iveco built unit or the fit only for a boat anchor "Puma" engine .

As per others we are looking at changing a bomb proof 08 year 2.3 JTD that has less than 60K miles because we fear the eco loons will stop us driving to many places in the near future .

I run an 2011 X250 as a work van and it spends it's entire life loaded to at least 3500kg and it's just about to clock 200K miles so have no fear of the longevity of our camper .... compounded by the fact the conversion was carried out by a Ferrari restorer for himself and is better specced and built than the many 2025 camper conversions we have been looking at it's a difficult call and TBH if it is the Puma engine that may well decide the future .

The Puma engine is rubbish in every Transit and the Landrovers I come across and just a huge step back in reliability from the 2.3 engine that while not without fault doesn't self destruct and suffers from known issues with known fixes .

Is the engine now the same in all "Serval" vans what ever the badge ? We have a good Vauxhall dealership near us and a very poor Fiat one ( I used to work for their AG side and they are truly poor ) so from a service point of view the dreaded V would be a better bet if all things were equal from a running gear point of view especially if we decide to buy a van and have it built to our spec .

We are looking at a 2024/25 Swift Carrera 194 based on a Ducato 2.2 with auto box so loads more van tech to go wrong should we change .

 

[SamuelBombero]

Looking at buying a Euro 6 Ducato myself next year also for a camper conversion. I understand that there are 4 euro six engines as follows:

2016-2019 2.3 Twin EGR
2019-2021 2.3 Adblue
2021-2023 2.2 Fiat Pratola Serra MultiJet III Adblue
23 onwards 2.2 PSA DW12 Adblue

If anyone can clarify the above that would be handy.

I'm aware everyone will have their own opinion but would it be fair to say the middle two are the better options, with the first having the twin EGR problems and the latest one being made by PSA.

 

[Steve928]

Can anyone confirm if the new 2.2 Tier6 final in a 2024/25 Ducato is an Iveco built unit or the fit only for a boat anchor "Puma" engine .

Neither.

PUMA:
IIRC the last and only time that the 2.2L Ford PUMA engine was used in a Fiat Ducato was in 100BHP 5 speed guise under Euro4.
The 2.2L Ford PUMA engine WAS used in PSA variants (Boxer and Relay) under Euro5, but was then replaced by the PSA Powertrains (French plant, nothing to do with Ford) DW10 2.0L for Euro6B and the DW12 2.2L for Euro6D.
Perhaps you're thinking of Ford's Panther, currently in the Transit but never fitted to a Sevel Ducato-alike van.

Iveco 2.3:
Last incarnation, following on from the twin-EGR Euro6B, was the short-lived Euro6D-TEMP version with AdBlue.
Replaced in the Ducato by the FCA Pratola-Serra Family B 2.2L under Euro6D-FINAL (at least I think the switch occurred at the TEMP->FINAL stage, but perhaps not precisely).

Seemingly, from all current documentation but yet to be confirmed 'in the metal', all variants of the latest series manufactured mid-24 onwards (i.e. Fiat, Peugeot, Citroen, Vauxhall, Toyota..?) now use a common powertrain: the Pratola-Serra Family B 2.2L with either M40 manual box or EAT8/AT8 auto box.

 

[Reg 65]

Iveco 2.3:
Last incarnation, following on from the twin-EGR Euro6B, was the short-lived Euro6D-TEMP version with AdBlue.

I seem to have got one in between? - Just looked at the V5 and EC Certificate of Conformity for my Dec 2020 Manufactured Ducato 2.3 140 Manual with Adblu and both say EURO 6 C1

 

[rayc]

I seem to have got one in between? - Just looked at the V5 and EC Certificate of Conformity for my Dec 2020 Manufactured Ducato 2.3 140 Manual with Adblu and both say EURO 6 C1

It appears a little complicated. From the web "While emission limits for Euro 6 has remained unchanged, the method for measuring performance has been updated over the years. Euro 6c represents vehicles tested under WLTP standards, while Euro 6d-TEMP and Euro6d represents cars that have been tested against RDE (Real Driving Emissions)." So perhaps your vehicle is built to Euro 6d standard and tested under the WLTP method?