General Prospective new owner.. few questions!

[bgunn]

Exactly. No reasonable person could validly argue that putting the standard OEM wheels & tyres off a Pop onto a Lounge increases the risk. Besides, most folks who fit winter tyres will also be switching their alloys for steelies in the process.

A particularly awkward insurance company might refuse to pay out for that reason. 99 times out of 100, you'll be fine, but my point is that one should exercise care in this situation, and it costs very little to consult with your own insurer to determine that all is OK.

 

[loveshandbags]

It all depends on what the insurance company considers a 'modification' to be.

At a guess, different brands of pads, discs, tyres, wipers etc... are not really modifications if they are a similar spec. However larger discs and wider tyres could be considered a performance upgrade. Which is silly because wider tyres and larger discs will help you stop quicker. it wont make the car any faster.

Maybe its because, statistically, i driver who has/will upgrade their tyres and discs to wider/larger, is more likely to drive faster?

According to my mate 'it is the intention' to use the extra 'capabilities'. But as mentioned before some insurance companies are sensible on non-BHP performance enhancements. As a 'rule of thumb' some charge e.g. 10% extra on the premium for a 10% increase in power - others wouldn't even consider you when you say 'Yes' to 'Is you car modified in any way ?'.

 

[306maxi]

I wouldn't go so far as not using non FIAT branded parts, but anything that clearly offers some form of performance gain clearly needs to be declared. Equally, something that changes the look of the car in such a way as to deviate from it's standard appearance, and thus make it stand out and possibly draw attention.

My point is, and I was playing devils advocate here but no-one seemed to notice, is that the insurance company can say what they damn well like (within the realms of the law) to get out of paying a claim, and they have a much bigger legal team at their disposal than most motorists to disprove/reject such a claim. Immaculately worded Latin in their sentences, or not.

big legal team or not, you can't simply do what you want and an E-marked part is legal, simple as that.

The fact of the matter is that the insurance companies have intentionally created an environment where people **** themselves when they've changed the slightest thing on their car so that the ones who try to be legit will call up and be charged extra and the ones who are dodgy can be refused a payout even if there is no legal reason for the claim to be refused.

Our Subaru has different wheels which certainly make the car more of a target and I have declared these. Do I declare when i change from winter tyres to summer tyres and vice versa on the 500? No.

 

[bgunn]

big legal team or not, you can't simply do what you want and an E-marked part is legal, simple as that.

I'm not challenging the legality of such parts. To use a phrase you oft quote to others, can I suggest you re-read what I have written again?

 

[306maxi]

I'm not challenging the legality of such parts. To use a phrase you oft quote to others, can I suggest you re-read what I have written again?

I read it again and still think you're wrong. In a matter where there are grey areas then yeah, a legal team matters, but when it's so black and white it doesn't matter a bit.

insurance companies do what they do because they can. We claimed against someone's motor insurance for damage to our front wall by a car which rolled down the road, it wasn't hard to apportion blame, it wasn't our wall that jumped out in front of the car. It took about 3 or 4 months for them to pay out, I got fed up, called and said "Consider this your notice of my intent to pursue this with the insurance ombudsman" and strangely enough a cheque arrived in the mail 2 days later. They kept the money in their accounts that much longer so they earnt a few pennies more interest and also hoped that we would just give up.

If insurance companies can scare just 1 out of every 100 claimants into thinking they're not allowed to claim then they save a significant amount of money.

Once you realise this, you become far more aware of your rights and more able to get what you deserve from insurance companies.

 

[306maxi]

Exactly. No reasonable person could validly argue that putting the standard OEM wheels & tyres off a Pop onto a Lounge increases the risk. Besides, most folks who fit winter tyres will also be switching their alloys for steelies in the process.

and if they did prove extra risk then they'd have to stop charging people for putting alloys on and they'd probably have to backpay anyone who paid extra to put alloys on. They simply wouldn't want to win.

 

[jrkitching]

Once you realise this, you become far more aware of your rights and more able to get what you deserve from insurance companies.

Remember also that the final decision on whether to pay your claim doesn't rest with the insurance company, but with a County Court Judge.

I'd apply the 'duck test'. If it looks like a standard car, drives like a standard car, handles like a standard car and performs like a standard car, then it is a standard car.

OTOH, if you've lowered it & fitted wheels which make it 'stand out from the crowd', then it's no longer a standard car and needs to be declared.

 

[306maxi]

Remember also that the final decision on whether to pay your claim doesn't rest with the insurance company, but with a County Court Judge.

I'd apply the 'duck test'. If it looks like a standard car, drives like a standard car, handles like a standard car and performs like a standard car, then it is a standard car.

OTOH, if you've fitted wheels which make it 'stand out from the crowd', then it's no longer a standard car and needs to be declared.

Yup and the insurance companies know when they can't win. If the insurance company had tried not to pay us out for our claim against the car then went through our garden wall then there's absolutely no way they would have won had we gone to court. Hence that's why they sent a cheque.

 

[bgunn]

If the insurance company had tried not to pay us out for our claim against the car then went through our garden wall then there's absolutely no way they would have won had we gone to court. Hence that's why they sent a cheque.

Not really sure what this has got to do with modifying a car though - that's just a standard insurance company delay tactic.

I couldn't give a flying f*** what you do and what you declare, but on a public forum, it's perhaps not the best advice to say "ahh, it's alright, just don't bother declaring things, you can push insurance companies about and they'll do as you say".

 

[306maxi]

It all depends on what the insurance company considers a 'modification' to be.

At a guess, different brands of pads, discs, tyres, wipers etc... are not really modifications if they are a similar spec. However larger discs and wider tyres could be considered a performance upgrade. Which is silly because wider tyres and larger discs will help you stop quicker. it wont make the car any faster.

Maybe its because, statistically, i driver who has/will upgrade their tyres and discs to wider/larger, is more likely to drive faster?

But those discs and tyres stray away from the standard specification of the car. It is reasonable to assume that someone who fits larger discs is looking to explore the limits of the car a bit more. There is also the issue of whether parts have been installed properly. Any monkey can change pads, but when hey put those bigger discs on with bigger calipers, was the adaptor kit for the calipers of a satisfactory standard? Should the car really have a bigger master cylinder to make those bigger calipers work? etc etc etc.

 

[loveshandbags]

Remember also that the final decision on whether to pay your claim doesn't rest with the insurance company, but with a County Court Judge.

If you were to challenge an Insurance company's decision what costs are you looking at in the UK ?
You can take an example of the one that I posted earlier on. I mentioned elsewhere that the driver was on 'E' tablets (pardon the pun ) but I couldn't prove it.
MX5 - repair damage IR£3.5K
4x4 - repair damage IR£1.5K.
No personal injuries

P.S. This court session took 2 years to come up and in the meantime I had lost my NCB. Annual insurance cost was over double at c.£1,350. They settled on the steps on the court after a bit of 'negotiation' and no admission of liability !

 

[306maxi]

Not really sure what this has got to do with modifying a car though - that's just a standard insurance company delay tactic.

I couldn't give a flying f*** what you do and what you declare, but on a public forum, it's perhaps not the best advice to say "ahh, it's alright, just don't bother declaring things, you can push insurance companies about and they'll do as you say".

My point was that insurance companies will do whatever it takes to either scare people into not claiming, into paying a higher premium OR dragging their heals till people simply give up.

I never said don't declare anything, I merely said that you don't need to declare some things, perhaps insurance companies should be more open when it comes to what you should declare and what you shouldn't. But then again they wouldn't scare people into needlessly declaring things now would they? How many people declared their winters tyres needlessly last winter and ended up paying more when they shouldn't have paid any more?

 

[306maxi]

If you were to challenge an Insurance company's decision what costs are you looking at in the UK ?
You can take an example of the one that I posted earlier on. I mentioned elsewhere that the driver was on 'E' tablets (pardon the pun ) but I couldn't prove it.
MX5 - repair damage IR£3.5K
4x4 - repair damage IR£1.5K.
No personal injuries

P.S. This court session took 2 years to come up and in the meantime I had lost my NCB. Annual insurance cost was over double at c.£1,350. They settled on the steps on the court after a bit of 'negotiation' and no admission of liability !

Your case was hardly black and white though. He was on drugs and your car was on import tyres which are really meant to be changed when they get here.....

If some insurance adjuster tries to weasel out of a claim because my pads are Brembo ones then he'll see me in court