Pipe wrench/stilson for outer tie rod end removal

[bugsymike]

The other rod end went on this morning. The job itself was "quick and painful" lol. I managed to cut my finger while loosening the locking nut, then i sanded my wrist with an electric wirebrush while cleaning up the thread, and i've managed to pick up a tiny metal splinter somehow!

The tracking was toe out, so i've brought the toe in by about 6mm total. The tracking hadn't been done for many years. I'll keep an eye on the tyres and adjust again if necessary. I took it for a drive and checked the first rod end for problems, its all fine, even the steering wheel is centred, i am happy with that!

Thanks for the help.

Ha,ha! Join the club, I used to think if I went though a metal detector it would trigger it. That and "hammer rash" were common.
Re the electric wire brush, I always test it and then aim the wire brush so going away from me, also never use without the guard!
Even when using a bench mounted grinding wheel I stand slightly to one side, so that if anything catches and flicks out it will hopefully miss me

 

[AnthonyH]

Ha,ha! Join the club, I used to think if I went though a metal detector it would trigger it. That and "hammer rash" were common.
Re the electric wire brush, I always test it and then aim the wire brush so going away from me, also never use without the guard!
Even when using a bench mounted grinding wheel I stand slightly to one side, so that if anything catches and flicks out it will hopefully miss me

Thats good advice. I forgot to say while putting on copper grease i managed to spray it at my head lol

 

[AnthonyH]

The slapstick nature of my day made me think of Laurel and Hardy, i used to be a big fan of them and still like them of course.

This be my Grande Punto lol

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have a set of 3 spanner/wrenches which work on the same principle as a stilson but on nuts:

They were a B&Q special offer and I liked the idea of them but was highly suspicious, being Stanley which I would rate as very much DIY, as to durability. They were cheap though so I couldn't resist buying them! So far they've withstood all the hand power I've applied but I haven't yet had to try them with a piece of pipe on them. They work really well on the likes of track rod locking nuts.

One thing noone has yet warned against in this thread - or I didn't see it anyway - is to hold the trackrod end with another stilson/spanner or whatever to stop excess twisting being applied to the ball of the track rod end. In extreme cases I've seen the rod end twisted clean off the ball which stays in the steering arm - thus ruining the track rod end.

 

[AnthonyH]

I have a set of 3 spanner/wrenches which work on the same principle as a stilson but on nuts:

View attachment 454040View attachment 454041

They were a B&Q special offer and I liked the idea of them but was highly suspicious, being Stanley which I would rate as very much DIY, as to durability. They were cheap though so I couldn't resist buying them! So far they've withstood all the hand power I've applied but I haven't yet had to try them with a piece of pipe on them. They work really well on the likes of track rod locking nuts.

The tools look good, i've put them on my wanted list!

I also saw this youtube short yesterday. And was kind of amazed i'd not thought to do this.

One thing noone has yet warned against in this thread - or I didn't see it anyway - is to hold the trackrod end with another stilson/spanner or whatever to stop excess twisting being applied to the ball of the track rod end. In extreme cases I've seen the rod end twisted clean off the ball which stays in the steering arm - thus ruining the track rod end.

I was worried about this as a possility, so I jammed my second stilson into the ground to prevent movement. The inner tie rods on this car are original and in good condition, they hang in the air and are relatively hard to move. The inner tie rods on my EVO, which is two years its junior are a bit more loose without flopping. At a guess I'd say this is why the GP handles better than my EVO.

 

[AnthonyH]

One of the good things about doing my second lot of tie rods is that i've learned the aims and procedures of tracking, so I can do it pretty quickly now. I'm currently monitoring the tyres closely. They were toe out and wearing on the inner. So i brought them in by 6mm, (thats 2 threads per side, i.e. 4 threads x1.5mm). The car expects -02mm to 0mm (toe in) from the specs in the manual. And will quite likely be more than 2mm toe-in now. I'll have to wait and see.

I'd be interested to know just how alignment goes out? I've googled and looked on Youtube but all i read was that its caused by going over potholes, hitting kerbs, etc. and is constantly changing by a tiny amount. What never gets said is which components cause alignment to go off. On these Puntos they can only be adjusted for toe, no camber settings are on the car. I suppose i'm asking do droplinks affect toe? Springs/shocks? Do control arms affect toe? And what else? Which is most important?

 

[The Panda Nut]

I have about five "stilson type " pipe wrenches from one about 3ft long down to a small one that is excellent for removing rounded off rusty brake pipe unions from wheel cylinders.
The beauty is that "wrap around" action so the more it wraps around the pipe the tighter it gets so no chance of slipping.
Obviously the genuine Stilson is still the best in my view but even the cheaper copies do the job.
It's a job to tell how big that set is from the video, but if reasonable quality I have even used a piece of scaffold pipe to increase the leverage even further, although access may be a problem if doing track rod ends.

Remember it only works one way. Turn over for tightening butideally use a spanner. Most tie rods have a flat somwhere for a spanner. BEING STEERING, dont gouge the tie rods too much or it may be weakened??

 

[AnthonyH]

ideally use a spanner. Most tie rods have a flat somwhere for a spanner.

I tightened the rod ends/locking nuts with a spanner, but needed something bigger to loosen them. I cleaned the threads up so they'll be comparitively easy to loosen next time and a spanner will work. Its possible the tracking was the original factory settings from 16 years ago. One of the rod ends was in poor shape although i could have reused the other, but its better to put both new on.

Incidentally, i bought some rod ends months ago, but have lost them, so i had to buy more! I wish they'd turn up

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

One of the good things about doing my second lot of tie rods is that i've learned the aims and procedures of tracking, so I can do it pretty quickly now. I'm currently monitoring the tyres closely. They were toe out and wearing on the inner. So i brought them in by 6mm, (thats 2 threads per side, i.e. 4 threads x1.5mm). The car expects -02mm to 0mm (toe in) from the specs in the manual. And will quite likely be more than 2mm toe-in now. I'll have to wait and see.

Those are big numbers when you're talking about adjusting toe. Normally you're talking about half a turn or less. Must have been out by a very long way to need this.

I'd be interested to know just how alignment goes out? I've googled and looked on Youtube but all i read was that its caused by going over potholes, hitting kerbs, etc. and is constantly changing by a tiny amount. What never gets said is which components cause alignment to go off. On these Puntos they can only be adjusted for toe, no camber settings are on the car. I suppose i'm asking do droplinks affect toe? Springs/shocks? Do control arms affect toe? And what else? Which is most important?

Lots of possibilities but most likely are either something getting bent or damaged and big potholes or bumping kerbs etc are likely reasons. This is real damage and will often be best sorted by renewing the damaged component. The more common reason, especially if the deviation is small, is wear in suspension ball joints, rubber bushes and the like. Gradual "relaxation" in rubber bushes, especially the bottom arm bushes on Macpherson strut suspension, like is used on our wee Fiats, is often the reason for a small adjustment being repeatedly needed. Renewing the bottom arm complete is often the best and easiest course of action - followed by setting the toe, which will have changed with the fitting of the new arm. Inexperienced people will often find it difficult to asses whether rubber bushes have reached the stage of needing renewal because they are naturally compliant. Really only experience will allow proper assessment unless the bushing is obviously falling to pieces.

Edit. Do drop links affect toe? No. Springs/shocks? not to any measurable degree unless bent maybe. Control/suspension arms? yes and might be bushings worn or arms bent. wear in track rod end ball joints or bottom ball joint on the strut. Also wear of inner tie rod ball joint or the rack itself. There's other stuff like bent subframes etc, but that's not wear - more likely accident damage.

 

[AnthonyH]

Those are big numbers when you're talking about adjusting toe. Normally you're talking about half a turn or less. Must have been out by a very long way to need this.

I deliberatetely made the number big so it'd toe-in for sure, so i'll be readjusting again the other way before long. Maybe that was too much, i'm not really bothered about the tyres wearing at this stage, learning the process is my interest, now you've said this i'll be keeping an even closer eye on the tyres though.

Lots of possibilities but most likely are either something getting bent or damaged and big potholes or bumping kerbs etc are likely reasons. This is real damage and will often be best sorted by renewing the damaged component. The more common reason, especially if the deviation is small, is wear in suspension ball joints, rubber bushes and the like. Gradual "relaxation" in rubber bushes, especially the bottom arm bushes on Macpherson strut suspension, like is used on our wee Fiats, is often the reason for a small adjustment being repeatedly needed. Renewing the bottom arm complete is often the best and easiest course of action - followed by setting the toe, which will have changed with the fitting of the new arm. Inexperienced people will often find it difficult to asses whether rubber bushes have reached the stage of needing renewal because they are naturally compliant. Really only experience will allow proper assessment unless the bushing is obviously falling to pieces.

Edit. Do drop links affect toe? No. Springs/shocks? not to any measurable degree unless bent maybe. Control/suspension arms? yes and might be bushings worn or arms bent. There's other stuff like bent subframes etc, but that's not wear - more likely accident damage.

It was this car I changed the control arms on recently, the alignment was toe-out before and toe-out after, without any attempt at alignment. Leaving aside more alignment, i do need to put another strut and mount on this car. I did one side months ago because the mount was pinging, and never got around to the other. Could the other strut have some damage i've not seen?! This is possible.

I can't see any damage to the subframe, although the droplinks look passed their best.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I deliberatetely made the number big so it'd toe-in for sure, so i'll be readjusting again the other way before long. Maybe that was too much, i'm not really bothered about the tyres wearing at this stage, learning the process is my interest, now you've said this i'll be keeping an even closer eye on the tyres though.



It was this car I changed the control arms on recently, the alignment was toe-out before and toe-out after, without any attempt at alignment. Leaving aside more alignment, i do need to put another strut and mount on this car. I did one side months ago because the mount was pinging, and never got around to the other. Could the other strut have some damage i've not seen?! This is possible.

I can't see any damage to the subframe, although the droplinks look passed their best.

Drop links just connect to the antiroll bar. If worn they usually make a knocking noise especially when on wheel goes over a bump but not the other. If very worn indeed they may become disconnected if the ball joints fall apart. Then the car will roll more in corners and not hold the road so well.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

The tools look good, i've put them on my wanted list!

Sorry, I don't think they make them any more?

I also saw this youtube short yesterday. And was kind of amazed i'd not thought to do this.

I don't like using Moles for this sort of job as I've found they invariably slip. Their big problem is they have no inherent self tightening action like the Stilson has.

 

[bugsymike]

The tools look good, i've put them on my wanted list!

I also saw this youtube short yesterday. And was kind of amazed i'd not thought to do this.





I was worried about this as a possility, so I jammed my second stilson into the ground to prevent movement. The inner tie rods on this car are original and in good condition, they hang in the air and are relatively hard to move. The inner tie rods on my EVO, which is two years its junior are a bit more loose without flopping. At a guess I'd say this is why the GP handles better than my EVO.

My oldest set of "Mole grips" were an American set by Proto I paid 30 shillings(£1.50) for as an apprentice around 1970, the other lads said I was a tw*t as a genuine pair of Molegrips at the time was 19/6d (just under £1) I still have them and they grip best of all but I did modify them years ago by putting a bolt instead of the round adjuster, mainly for the better thread as I have never had to put a spanner on them.!

 

[AnthonyH]

I've just bought a new strut and mount, onwards ever onwards, rebuilding a £450, 16 year old car...

I have a set of 3 spanner/wrenches which work on the same principle as a stilson but on nuts:

View attachment 454040View attachment 454041

They were a B&Q special offer and I liked the idea of them but was highly suspicious, being Stanley which I would rate as very much DIY, as to durability. They were cheap though so I couldn't resist buying them! So far they've withstood all the hand power I've applied but I haven't yet had to try them with a piece of pipe on them. They work really well on the likes of track rod locking nuts.

One thing noone has yet warned against in this thread - or I didn't see it anyway - is to hold the trackrod end with another stilson/spanner or whatever to stop excess twisting being applied to the ball of the track rod end. In extreme cases I've seen the rod end twisted clean off the ball which stays in the steering arm - thus ruining the track rod end.

I got google lens , a kind of AI tool to have a look for them, and it found some on Amazon US. I presume this is them? I'd guess you paid £26 for all 3, rather than just the one.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B08681RK45/

They're being described as a "Magic wrench"

 

[AnthonyH]

My oldest set of "Mole grips" were an American set by Proto I paid 30 shillings(£1.50) for as an apprentice around 1970, the other lads said I was a tw*t as a genuine pair of Molegrips at the time was 19/6d (just under £1) I still have them and they grip best of all but I did modify them years ago by putting a bolt instead of the round adjuster, mainly for the better thread as I have never had to put a spanner on them.!

Don't suppose you have a picture? It might inspire me to try to do the same

 

[bugsymike]

Don't suppose you have a picture? It might inspire me to try to do the same

Bare in mind theses are 54 years old now and still working well.

 

[AnthonyH]

Thats gotta be worth a try, i've just been looking and it doesn't appear possible to buy these.

 

[AnthonyH]

Thats gotta be worth a try, i've just been looking and it doesn't appear possible to buy these.

If mine last as long as yours i'll be a centurion!

Whats currently in there is an M10 bolt with 1.5mm pitch, i possibly have some of those, but making one end slender may prove impossible, i'll see what I can do tomorrow.

 

[bugsymike]

If mine last as long as yours i'll be a centurion!

Whats currently in there is an M10 bolt with 1.5mm pitch, i possibly have some of those, but making one end slender may prove impossible, i'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Do you mean you have a strange helmet and walk around in a skirt/toga
Re the bolt, I welded a decent nut on the end of the handle and just used that thread of bolt, nothing special.

 

[AnthonyH]

Do you mean you have a strange helmet and walk around in a skirt/toga
Re the bolt, I welded a decent nut on the end of the handle and just used that thread of bolt, nothing special.
View attachment 454100

LOL.

Looks to be excellent protection from Covid. Where can I buy one? l deffo wouldn't look strange walking around my town (and no i don't live in Chester) lol

I've not got any welding gear...

This is the closest I could get to having some leverage, it'd probably be useful;

https://www.screwfix.com/p/stanley-fatmax-jaw-locking-mole-grip-pliers-10-250mm-/2558T?gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gclsrc=aw.ds