Technical petrol vs diesel....

[quotethepigeon]

Ok so I've searched multiple forums and sites trying to find a precise answer but I'm still kind of stuck.

I've heard that a diesel engine will develop problems if not given enough time to warm up and run in between journeys....here goes.

5 mornings of the week I take the other half to work , this is a 25 min trip at 30-50mph 3 hours later I take a 30 min trip to work half 30mph and half 70mph , 8 hours later I return home.
Does this driving pattern warrant a diesel and more importantly would it kill it?

 

[fpan]

I wouldn't worry about it with the driving pattern you describe but you'd need to be doing many miles per year to save against the extra cost of diesel.

My 100HP is "only" around £3 more expensive in my 160 mile roundtrip to work against my wife's 120d.

It's not a direct comparison though as you can travel at higher speeds in the beemer. Doing the same speeds in the Panda would make the £ gap bigger.

 

[AB100]

Most folks just focus on the annual fuel bill savings - say £200 a year with a diesel versus 1.2 on around 10000 miles. There are other factors to consider I guess.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

It's often said that as far as economy of running goes, diesel's perform best on long runs, and petrols on short (commute type) runs. That probably applies whatever annual mileage you do.

 

[Goudrons]

I'm a big diesel fan, I've had many but there's trouble in store for them.

They aren't as clean as we've been lead to believe, sure their CO2's are good, but their NOx's are terrible and they are now under attack for this.

Several London Councils have introduced a "tax" on parking charges for diesel cars, Islington being the latest, adding £96 (the biggest charge) on to a space for every diesel, some pay an eye watering £540 a year now to park in the street.
http://www.islington.gov.uk/services/parking-roads/parking/Pages/Diesel-surcharge.aspx

I believe more trouble is in store for them and nationally rather than just in London.
A lot of fleet owners are ****ting bricks as their values are soon to take a battering as plans are afoot to shift the driving public away for the oily stuff.
These plans, along with tighter emissions restrictions are going to put some manufacturers off too, I'm told Mercedes Vans are very worried and considering dumping diesel for petrol/hybrids in the near future.

Also, the trouble with these modern diesels is there emissions controls and the fact they do run so little fuel, this has now made them less reliable than they once were and far more expensive to repair, often needing diesel specialists rather than your local garage.

I don't want to put anyone off, as I love a good diesel (good as it inline pumped, pre direct, pre common rail), but you really need to consider what's in store for them, and it isn't good news!

 

[AB100]

Suppose at the end of the day it's choice - I do like our 2011 1.2 Dynamic and it's averaging 45mpg for mainly urban work -certainly no motorway, but not driven gently either.


Some folks are able to drive the 1.2 very gently and get 52+ mpg average, which is pretty decent.


J R R Kitching should be along in a bit to extol the virtues of the 1.2 in the rolling hills of Middle Earth. I mean Middlemarch. I mean Dorset.

 

[MikeySkiBoy]

It really depends what your priorities are and what you are willing to pay for.

I've got a 2006 diesel which has done a fair bit of short journey work in the almost six years that I have had it - I do a 10-15 minute journey along a country road twice a day, five days a week. On top of that there has been numerous shorter journeys recently, but not a lot of city driving. The only engine problem that I’ve had that might have been related to this usage pattern was an issue with the manifold pressure (MAP) sensor getting clogged up. The MAP sensor was cleaned out with some isopropyl alcohol and the problem was resolved.

My MPG calculator generally sits around 60MPG and that seems pretty good to me. If I do take it for a few long runs that number climbs up and it has been seen at over 70Mpg.

When I was looking to buy a Panda in 2009 I had test drives with the three available engines. I like to rattle along at a reasonable rate of knots and I thought the 1.1 and 1.2 petrol engines were perfectly pleasant, but were both underpowered. As I was also considering a tow-bar for a small trailer I was happy to pay the premium for the diesel. This has turned out to be a simply brilliant wee engine. Another plus is that having that extra weight of the diesel engine over the front wheels means that my wee Panda is simply immense when the snow comes and is regularly the only car to make it up our street, shaming the neighbours fancy 4x4s.

If it was me, I’d happily buy the same car again and would heartily recommend a diesel Mk3 Panda. The only time that I might reconsider that advice is if you weren’t too happy at paying the premium for the privilege and wouldn’t be too bothered if a petrol version was a bit slow.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

In our village is a garage that people come to from miles around, such is the owner's superb reputation.
I was in there this morning, booking an Mot on a petrol vehicle, and on the floor in front of a 500 was a dismantled Twinair.
As he saw me looking at it he said, 'Never buy one - too highly stressed. Get the little Multijet and belt it and it'll last forever. Oh, I've just remembered - you've already got one haven't you!'

He was preaching to the converted, because despite the ridiculous baggage that diesels now have to carry, I love their drivability and would happily buy another even if regs got even tighter.

 

[dozer]

I've got a 2006 1.3 multijet panda. It was on 67k when I bought it and it's now on 79k. It goes though front wishbones but that's about all. It had an EGR valve and the electronic steering unit due to the lights being on on the dash when I bought it but was repaired before I picked it up. It's had 3 services. It does blow a bit of black smoke but a good thrash soon cures it. I only run in on shell or BP. I'll buy another one aslong as it doesn't have a DPF.

 

[Wee Smurf]

I have a 2005 Multijet with 101.5K miles on it. I'd say the most important thing would be to ensure that the engine gets up to temperature so that it runs efficiently. Remember that it will take longer in the winter. My Panda is garaged in a warm garage at night but in the cold of the winter it can still take up to 10 miles on 30-50 mph roads to get up to temperature. My journey is 13 miles each way.

The main problem that I had engine wise was down to poor workmanship. I've had no bother with Egr or maf sensors, but I'll put that down to my car getting up to temperature on almost any trip.

I tend to get mid 60s mpg for my normal driving (commute across Belfast and weekends carting the kids around). If I take a longer trip down the motorway and stick to around 60 mph, then it's around 70 mpg.

Depending on traffic, weather, speed and which tyres I'm on, I get between 450 and 500 miles per tank. I'm happy with that. I only use Maxol diesel. I once tried Sainsburys but my car hated it and felt like it was running on 3 cylinders. A tank of my usual fuel soon sorted that out. I'll never make that mistake again.

 

[neilwill]

In my view they are two different animals to drive, which suits your style? Yes you have to pay for it, but you also have to live with it too! How do you like to drive? If that question is not important then it's down to maths. For me never the MJ (sorry guys) I'd do electric before that! Dear Fiat.....

 

[fpan]

I find it depends in my mood.
When tired and you just want to get somewhere, the torque of a turbocharged engine (be it diesel or petrol) means progress can be made easily arriving at your destination without sweating.
If you are fresh and in attack mode a high revving petrol engine is more fun but can be tiring otherwise.

 

[Punto MC]

Even though I've got a 100HP...(which I still love btw)...I do actually like diesels.


Or rather...I've had diesels and I like the way they go in normal driving. In fun driving (ie extending the engine)...there's no contest.


(I'm also a bit of an 'mpg freak'...mangaged to get 68.6mpg in SWMBO's 107 recently)


However...if Fiat had ever done a Panda '100D'.....I would absolutely be all over it!


(as long as it looked and drove the same as mine! (well...maybe a slightly smoother ride )


But yes...I've heard such good things of the multijets....I would consider getting one...but every time I look at my 100HP....it's just so right!!!




(and I fully agree with fpan, above)

 

[fpan]

Punto MC, great minds think alike!

We seem to have a lot in common!

 

[elder81]

I have the pleasure of choosing between a 2.5tdi VW (T4 semi cvampervan) and my 100hp in the mornings and both are amazing, but exactly how FPAN says.

The 100hp although it is possible to drive slow, is not easy to do so. The van however is just a pleasure to cruise along in even with the suspension being lowered 3"

 

[tinmar49]

You will probably find the petrol costs less over time, although the diesel is only £30 to tax. The petrol is simpler and more plentiful, cheaper to insure, and just as quick. Diesels rev lower, top gear revs in the petrol equate to fourth in the diesel. The petrol courtesy cars that I have driven seem so gutless compared to my diesel, but they are quieter. If you get a diesel, don't use cheap oil, and let the engine tick over for five or ten seconds before switching off to cool the turbo.

 

[AB100]

You will probably find the petrol costs less over time, although the diesel is only £30 to tax. The petrol is simpler and more plentiful, cheaper to insure, and just as quick. Diesels rev lower, top gear revs in the petrol equate to fourth in the diesel. The petrol courtesy cars that I have driven seem so gutless compared to my diesel, but they are quieter. If you get a diesel, don't use cheap oil, and let the engine tick over for five or ten seconds before switching off to cool the turbo.

The 60hp 1.2 ECOs are £30 tax as are the later 69hp 1.2s. The lack of torque when you switch cars will be obvious, just like when we switch from the 100hp to the 1.2. You just drive em differently - more gear changes in the 1.2.

 

[babbo_umbro]

In our village is a garage that people come to from miles around, such is the owner's superb reputation.
I was in there this morning, booking an Mot on a petrol vehicle, and on the floor in front of a 500 was a dismantled Twinair.
As he saw me looking at it he said, 'Never buy one - too highly stressed. Get the little Multijet and belt it and it'll last forever. Oh, I've just remembered - you've already got one haven't you!'

He was preaching to the converted, because despite the ridiculous baggage that diesels now have to carry, I love their drivability and would happily buy another even if regs got even tighter.

Mrs b_u had a MJ, I've had a 100HP, she now has a 1.2 and I have a 4x4 TA - so we've tried all the engines. As we live in Devon and Umbria we do very little driving in heavy traffic. Mpgs are/were 59, 39, 49 and 39 in the same order. The MJ was OK but it eat front tyres - you could feel all that weight on the front end - and I felt you had to row it along with the gear lever - even the MJ's relatively wide rev range for a diesel didn't compensate. You'd have to do a lot of miles to justify the extra cost of a diesel. The 100HP was surprisingly flexible and great fun, though you had to rev it to really enjoy the extra grunt. The 1.2 is smooth and flexible, very drivable in all conditions, quite nippy for what it is but a bit dull and slow up Alps. The TA's done 26000 miles in just under two years, it has character and accelerates as quickly as the 100HP between 20 and 90 mph, so a non-4x4 would be a bit quicker. Don't agree with your tame mechanic's comments - if the TA was building a reputation for unreliability this forum would be full of it - it works quite hard but it never seems bothered. There are areas of the MJ - or any diesel - where the stresses are much higher than in any petrol engine.

 

[Sweetsixteen]

Don't agree with your tame mechanic's comments - if the TA was building a reputation for unreliability this forum would be full of it - it works quite hard but it never seems bothered.

Exactly what my mechanic said. He did not say the TA was 'unreliable'. In effect, he said what you've said - it 'works quite hard'. The one he had in pieces was in his shop for a leaking head gasket. I have no experience of this engine so I can't comment further.

I have found with the MJ that, for a diesel, the torque band is quite narrow compared to my other diesels. My jeep, for example, pulls strongly from around 1.4k revs, whereas my MJ doesn't start to kick until 1.8k. Mine has been mapped, induction-modified and exhaust-modified. It is real fun to drive and I love its cheeky character.

Incidentally, if you drive to Italy, where do you cross the Alps? We do this trip often, and love the Modane/Susa col (Mont Cenis).

 

[babbo_umbro]

..
Incidentally, if you drive to Italy, where do you cross the Alps? We do this trip often, and love the Modane/Susa col (Mont Cenis).

We invariably enter Switzerland at Basel and drive through the Saint Gothard tunnel. This spring we stopped off in Provence for a week's walking holiday so we came round the coast at Menton and drove past Genoa - not great with numerous murky and narrow tunnels. It's habit really, as we've done the trip twice a year for nearly thirty years and I might try the Mont Cenis route for a change.