Technical Panda Cross 4x4 System Failure-Update

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Technical Panda Cross 4x4 System Failure-Update

The dealers often keep quiet about how frequently faults turn up but judging by how often this fault has been reported on this forum, for a version of the Panda that's not a big seller, I reckon it's a common problem.
I'm hoping it's been a duff batch of solenoids and that there will be no further problems.
I'll have to curb my natural enthusiasm, driving on snow. I've a tendency to forget that, although 4x4s accelerate much better on the slippy stuff, they don't stop any better!
 
Yup, that snow's on its way to Hertfordshire too, so I may yet get to see how good the little red beast really is.

Having commented about another thread going off at serious tangents, now my turn: in response to Chris taking 45 mins to get across Newcastle, here's part of an online traffic report I get every day about my homeward journey from work (from www.keepmoving.co.uk)...

-The current journey time for this route is estimated at 1hr 34mins.
-The distance covered by this route is 20 miles.
-There are horrific delays detected on the A1 Northbound at Stevenage.


An hour and a half to go 20 miles!! Now you see why a slow 0-60 time isn't really an issue with the Panda Cross! Come on snow... we're waiting
 
59 mpg is impressive for the Cross lightfoot! Do you think thats close to the actual mpg though as i know the computer can sometimes be over enthusiastic? Whats your thoughts on the cross so far? Have you had the chance to try its ELD yet on snow/ice etc? If so do you find it effective?:)

The miles per gallon reading is surprisingly accurate on the Cross compared to other cars I have owned with mpg computing.
I always top up the tank and keep a record of mileage and fuel used on a spreadsheet. The spreadsheet calculates trip and cumulative results. Over a distance of 3,000 miles the spreadsheet and the Cross show the same results.
Sorry no real snow yet. Will let you know.
 
Any verdicts on the cross + snow + eld combination yet? Any more of an grip advantage in snow over the standard 4x4? Practically everywhere got snow apart from Northern Ireland today so i was sorta thinking even though transport networks broke down, tubes were closed, gritters couldnt get out ...all the panda cross and 4x4 owners would be sitting behind the wheel of their cars saying to themselves i dont really have an excuse for not getting to work because i know its still going to be possible lol(y)
 
Oh, and my 81 year old Dad says that it's the easiest car to get into that he's ever known and, if we would let him drive again, he would buy a Panda.

My best mate has got Cerebal Palsy in her leg and hip and she says the panda is the easiest car she has ever got in and out of and she is a big girl too.
 
Some brief thoughts on the Panda Cross when driven on snow.

Well, actually here in the North East we had less extreme conditions than in the South and, due to it warming up and raining last night, here in Sunderland there is no snow at all.

On Sunday evening I drove up to Alston, snow was falling fast but only a dusting had settled on the road. The winter tyres of the Cross, which are a bit narrower than the tyres on the Climbing, performed extremely well and I never felt the car slip once, even though I was keeping up a faster pace than most other road users. The diesel engine was well suited to the conditions as I could often hold a higher gear than in the petrol 4x4 would allow. In general the Cross felt much safer, more stable and solid than the petrol-engined Climbing.

On very wet, sometimes flooded, roads last night the Cross was rock solid and I cruised happily at 70 mph, a speed that most other road users did not feel happpy to attain. However, despite repeated attempts to repair the system, the dreaded 4x4 unavailable warning came on once on a very wet bit of road. It hasn't appeared since, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Oh, and the rear wiper does not always operate as it should. Now this could be a result of my rear-end shunt, as the tailgate was replaced and the wiper motor and its wiring will have been interfered with. I'll have a look at the situation later before I complain either to the bodyshop or the Fiat garage.

Odd how all the London buses were off the road yesterday. I lived down there for years and through some harsh winters but the buses still ran. However, in those days they were sensible, smaller, easier to control buses running on narrower tyres. I refer to vehicles like the single-deck RF and RT and RM double-deckers.
 
Forgot to add that the spotlights on the Cross provide superior lighting on full beam, as compared to the standard Panda set-up. As the car is only capable of modest speeds, the lighting is more than adequate.
However, in heavy snow the beams just reflected off the falling snowflakes and dipped beam with foglamps was better.
 
Chris

How much of your new cars snow-confidence comes from the winter tyres do you think?

Having fitted winter tyres back in December to my climbing 4x4 made such a huge difference!

I have been driving through all weathers over this winter and not been brought up short once - indeed only once did the car even struggle, and that was on a road covered by about c.5" of snow over ice on a short but steep slope where I was the first car through that day and probably shouldn't have been there, but once thereI didn't have much choice! Normally the roads here have been covered in snow, ice, and standing water and the car never wanders off the chosen line.

People locally are constantly amazed when they hear I've been driving around quite happily in the conditions we've been having here. Great advert for FIAT Pandas!

Not to say I wouldn't have had a diesel engined 4x4, but they weren't available then!
 
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My Climbing ran on M+S tyres, so the compound may not have been quite right for low temperatures but the tread pattern was good for snow.
I feel that the winter tyres contributed but the narrower tyre was important and the characteristics of the diesel engine led to a much more relaxed drive with less need to change gear, especially down changes, which can be a bit scarey on snow and ice.
In addition, the Cross is heavier and less prone to jump about on the road when pushed.
 
....... However, despite repeated attempts to repair the system, the dreaded 4x4 unavailable warning came on once ......

Sorry to hear this, Chris.

Was it just the 4x4 warning light on constantly, or did a message display on the dash ?

My wife drove the Cross in the snow this last two days without 4x4 problems. There wasn't much snow, but I was hoping the solenoid thing was fixed.

The hill start problem seems like a "random message" as hill start is definitely available.

Mike O.
 
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The warning came on and remained on until I stopped the engine at the end of my journey. Since then the warning has not come on again but in the past this fault started off being intermittent, eventually becoming permanent. I can only hope that this has been a single, random occurence.
However, my confidence in this electronic part of the 4x4 system has been undermined.
 
Hello guys and gals:

I have experienced the "4 x 4 unavailable" warning almost immediately after employing the Electically Locking Differential system in the recent bad weather - car has done 2,600 miles. Funny thing is that the fault was intermittent in that the warning came-on at start-up (even thought the four wheel drive was clearly functioning) but could be extinguished by starting-up again after an initial drive of 30 minutes or so - rather suggests damp connexions being dried-out by motion.
Anyway, took it to Fiat Desira in London N 11 + they ordered and fitted e new "Electro-Pneumatic Valve" (Part number appears from warranty invoice to be "X F0071752653 963463/ELECTROPNEUM"

So, see how it goes + hope the staying-power of the replacement longer than its predecessor !

Car is great on the snow

Eleanor
 
Eleanor

Every UK Cross owner on this site appears to have had the Electro-Pneumatic Valve/Solenoid replaced.

The replacements seem to work OK.

Mike O.
 
Just to say, after 1,000 miles same symptom (I will not call it a problem) - had the solenoid/valve replaced last Friday - no problems so far - car is performing brilliantly
 
It didn't take long! 1555 miles, wet morning, just drove through some puddles and the dreaded 4x4 warning light on the dash came on plus '4x4 mode unavailable consult owners handbook' on the trip computer.

On arriving at work and switching off and on again the warning light disappeared.

I'm sure this is an electrical connection problem but will call the garage and ensure they order and fit a new electro-pneumatic valve.

On the principles of the 4x4 system in the Cross the handbook states that it is activated by an electro-pneumatic valve. This implies that it isn't a simple viscous coupling. Such a coupling shouldn't need any electronic control. The ELD surely operates by braking individual wheels and relies on sensors to detect spin differences between wheels on the same axle. Again it is hard to see why an electro-pneumatic valve is required unless there is a lock on the front-rear differential? Has anyone any thoughts?
 
Paul, don't let the dealer simply clean up the electrical connections. Eventually the 4x4 not available warning will stay on all the time and the valve/solenoid will need replacing.
Despite this warning the basic 4x4 system still functions. This suggests that the faulty part is involved in operating the trick electronics.
However, this still fails to explain the "baked bean tins" either side of the rear diff which are absent on the 4x4 Climbing and whose function has not yet been explained.
In addition, has any owner actually seen his or her "electro-pneumatic valve"?
Do they really exist or are they just a result of a mass delusion amongst UK Panda Cross owners?
Paul, take your camera to the dealers and ask if you can take a photo of this elusive component to post on here.
 
Chris, I managed to get the fitting instructions for the solenoid valve. It's located on top of the rear differential unit. Fiat call the valve a '4x4 hydraulic coupling activation solenoid valve). This implies to me that the car doesn't go into 4x4 mode until the valve is actuated. The garage seemed to confirm this. However, it beats me that 1 year on we still don't have a full description of the mode of operation of the cross 4x4 system!
 
Think i might have added this before (can't be bothered to look back - sorry!) Check the web for descriptions of a system from a company called Haldex: suspect the Cross uses this or a similar electro-pneumatically actuated system. Certainly believe that the engagement of 4x4 is electrical, and so not available if the valve packs up (unlike the earlier viscous coupling system). Using an electronic engagement should allow faster selection of 4x4 (the viscous system has to 'slip' for a short time before it works), and also allows ESP systems to be used.

Pete
 
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