Technical Panda 4x4 Wheels & Tyres

[Rondine]

I have just got my 10.th Fiat, a 5 month old Panda 4x4 Wild '23. I was surprised that the car had Continental summer tyres (175/65 R 15).
I want to fit alternative wheels with all season or winter tyres as I live in Scotland. I have Fiat 14 inch steel wheels with 175/65 winter tyres,
but reckon these will have too small a diameter.
I also have unused Fiat 14 inch alloys and wonder if these can be used, but using which tyre size ?
I am hesitating buying 15 inch wheels now as I will eventually fit all season tyres to the wheels which are on the car.
( I have too many wheels with winter tyres from past cars which I didn't have time to sell. Dealers are not giving anything for these during trade in
as opposed to the practice in countries requiring winter tyres.}

I am very pleased with my car which has a good infotainment system, but can't understand why Fiat fitted summer tyres and dropped the fog lights.
I am considering fitting some FF100 Hella elliptical fog lights. Does anyone have experience with fitting fog lights ?
I was looking at 4x4 Cross cars, but they were a bit costly. Would have liked the hill descend system on the Cross.
I had a panda 4x4 with a 'fire ' engine in 1990. Pity I didn't hold on to this as I believe there are only about a dozen of these left in the UK.

Good to have just joined the forum.

 

[porta]

Oh deers... and your still supporting them... oh deery deers. What suprises me here is your still alive. Most of them... are dead or wooonded. Its a small world i was one of those too. I told it to them quite in similar words and became "retired" when they took exception. I said that managers who never set foot in Scotland ought to a shut up spouting about supposed deficiencies they couldnt have actually seen and that if a few, well most of them became sacked the world would be no worse for it. I became one of them then and no longer one of those. So now I blame the Elfs and safeties or everything from communism to inflation. Ok no slight intended. I used to strare at em and say elf n safety isa management consideration equal to all others, when did you last devote time specifically to it?? Eh.
Lead balloons....

The problem is that some folk, including H&S are jobsworths or don’t understand making the job safe ‘reasonably or practically’ and don’t even understand the job or hazards…a bit like banning swimming in a public pool as the danger is death through drowning and not the sensible option of ‘trained lifeguards’.

 

[porta]

As an aside to H&S, some years ago the wife bought me chainsaw trousers (lots of Kevlar fibres to trap and stop chain) as a friend of hers husband severed his arm with a chainsaw…I got told to ‘pickle off’ wehn I pointed out that I’d have to wear them on my arms to stop a similar issue!

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

185s fitted to newly painted wheels with spacers. Not a lot of clearance at rear arch.

Looking back at this...
I've always said the 4x4s need 15" wheels to clear the front disc calipers, but Im not sure that is actually the case.

Which then leads to a question: if you could fit 14" wheels (an unknown 'if'), could you then fit those with the much more more knobbly tyres (such as the Ziarelli Mud Power ones mentioned before), where the overall running diameter would match the 15" original wheels/tyres but with room for the true off-road deeper tread?

Just a passing thought

 

[Twotone2]

We had the tyres replaced tonight and my wife has said it's like driving a different car, I've not driven it yet but her comments sound as though the car is sticking to the road like sh!t

Personally I was sceptical that tyres could make a big difference but my wife's reaction tells me that the car has changed for the better, she's driven it twice since we got it back from Halfords and she said after the second trip that the car is driving amazingly.

I'll not get to drive it until the weekend but looking forward to doing that.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

We had the tyres replaced tonight and my wife has said it's like driving a different car, I've not driven it yet but her comments sound as though the car is sticking to the road like sh!t

Personally I was sceptical that tyres could make a big difference but my wife's reaction tells me that the car has changed for the better, she's driven it twice since we got it back from Halfords and she said after the second trip that the car is driving amazingly.

I'll not get to drive it until the weekend but looking forward to doing that.

When I bought ours it had Heinz 57 varieties on and drove like a drunk pig dancing in clogs. A matching set of Vreds and it was transformed.

 

[Twotone2]

When I bought ours it had Heinz 57 varieties on and drove like a drunk pig dancing in clogs. A matching set of Vreds and it was transformed.

Well we've had brand new Goodyear Duragrip tyres which on the car which came with it as factory fitted tyres, I thought were okay but evidently not as good as the Vector G3s

 

[porta]

Looking back at this...
I've always said the 4x4s need 15" wheels to clear the front disc calipers, but Im not sure that is actually the case.

Which then leads to a question: if you could fit 14" wheels (an unknown 'if'), could you then fit those with the much more more knobbly tyres (such as the Ziarelli Mud Power ones mentioned before), where the overall running diameter would match the 15" original wheels/tyres but with room for the true off-road deeper tread?

Just a passing thought

The simple answer is yes, but do take note of offset

 

[The Panda Nut]

Deleted as off topic. Sorry

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

What always amazed me is that any company could think is was good use of money to pay people to go tell the managers who were paid to run the business to run the business and at a level that a three year old might have observed as sensible. Dont waste that, write this down, adhere to the law, tell that person to do as you have told them etc etc The technicalities of doing the work in dangerous situations llike, near gas, electricity asbestos fair enough, but keeping the site free from trees groing outide fire doors, and not having 14 extension leads on one socket, and fencing pretty obvious drops from work areas into black holes, and not wiring up stop buttons, using worn out plant and machinery, really... I could so easily write a book The crowning glory was when they couldnt make ends meet, and had a huge conference looking for ways to economise. A little voice from the back asked if anyone, directors included knew the cost, year to date of avoidable accidents. The silence was deafening. Suffice to say top brass sat bolt upright when I reminded them.

The whole problem of risk assessment in a few words there I agree.
Too many assessments done by people in offices who just aint got a clue. Management too stupid and too lazy to take the time to talk to the people who do the job. An absence of the concept of risk management at top level in management in general and zero company and activitylevel assessements to determine what overall risks there are. HSE not prepared to say, well if you dont have a detailed assessment what did the company see as the risks of the activity overal befire a contract was tendered. ANd if there arnt any that its clear corporate neglighence. If they did that and applied construction type thinking to other contractual arrangements life would rapidly become far safer everywhere. In refuse company level assessmentwould indicate for example that heavy vehicles with people working adjacent are a key risk area in a refuse service so one would expect to see a significant set of assessments in that area rather than none. Boiling kettles in messrooms isnt worth assessing and you wouldnt expect to see more than passing comments. This approach would cover PUWER as well by defualt, then if you add in working in the dark on high speed roads even at the highest level things start to become pretty clear pretty fast and any decent manager would say why dont we have a full set of assessments for this as we have already identified some big risk areas. I was actually told never to contradict a director when they were talking crap to an H&S qualified client whose face was curling at the edges at the things he was saying. I declined to comply. The client did say to him later if I hadnt intervened and 'explained' we did undertsand the concepts that we would have been booted out for the tendering process that day. The director did later acknowldge this Im glad to say.

Then of course you have to deal with the burks on the tools who dont want to do a job saying they refuse on safety grounds to do something thats maybe with some risk but no life threatening if things are controlled sensibly. But the real reason is they dont like pushing a mower half a mile on a footpath and want a four wheel drive mintractor for five minutes once a month. And of course the people who buy PPE centrally and get glove for abatoir workers for people collecting recycling in sacks on wet days. Then there are the risk assesment forms that identify risk as high because some bozo thinks so rather than them thinking of the real and relative level srisk to life and limb compared say to working in a nuclear reactor or a blast furnace. In refuse this lead to everthing being classed as high risk so no one reacts when something really is high risk. Looking back I wonder why I stuck it for so long

My first rule of H&S is we all go home with the same amount of limbs and digits we start the day with and in the same state of health.
My second rule is shoot the jobsworths or should that be the first rule?

Er, sorry, have strayed more than just a little from 4x4 wheels and tyres here?

 

[Twotone2]

Just wondering if I should maybe buy a set of steels for the Goodyear tyres that were on the car? Probably a waste of money to be honest, I can't see me being able to sell the Goodyear tyres as postage and fitting will kill the value of them.

 

[Legendsailing]

I have just got my 10.th Fiat, a 5 month old Panda 4x4 Wild '23. I was surprised that the car had Continental summer tyres (175/65 R 15).
I want to fit alternative wheels with all season or winter tyres as I live in Scotland. I have Fiat 14 inch steel wheels with 175/65 winter tyres,
but reckon these will have too small a diameter.
I also have unused Fiat 14 inch alloys and wonder if these can be used, but using which tyre size ?
I am hesitating buying 15 inch wheels now as I will eventually fit all season tyres to the wheels which are on the car.
( I have too many wheels with winter tyres from past cars which I didn't have time to sell. Dealers are not giving anything for these during trade in
as opposed to the practice in countries requiring winter tyres.}

I am very pleased with my car which has a good infotainment system, but can't understand why Fiat fitted summer tyres and dropped the fog lights.
I am considering fitting some FF100 Hella elliptical fog lights. Does anyone have experience with fitting fog lights ?
I was looking at 4x4 Cross cars, but they were a bit costly. Would have liked the hill descend system on the Cross.
I had a panda 4x4 with a 'fire ' engine in 1990. Pity I didn't hold on to this as I believe there are only about a dozen of these left in the UK.

Good to have just joined the forum.

175 75 R14 will give you pretty much the same O/D but there seem to be limited options available in that tyre size.
I'm looking to do something similar myself and would be interested to know how small a wheel will fit without changing discs or callipers.
Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I'm in Highland Perthshire by Loch Tay.

regards

Andy

 

[The Panda Nut]

I must be lucky, or slowing down, but 45 is settling out as worst case mpg. The summer tyres are much superior in the summer especially for noise and economy. When the poorer weather comes Im interested in never getting stuck, and being able to stop and start on whatevr surface there is. Alpin 4s look like the Vecotrs but with a much more aggressive treqad and and many times more sipes. I certainly rate them well. They are noisy but superior to teh COntinetal tyres fitted to my last one. They were good in snow, but pretty poor if pushing on, with terminal understeer appearing too soon. I have just put 2 Vectors on Pablo Peanut our latest Panda, so will be able to make a proper judgement in due course between teh Michelin and Goodyears. Goodyears are currently cheap. If the going is tough from appearnaces, or in snow and mud I would go for the Alpins straight out, from appearances, but the Goodyears are probably quieter. All seasons seems to be a sensible compromise for most people as we dont have the weather for winter tyres in the southern 2/3 of the UK. I still want to do more alps so full winter spec are still required for me. On the mpg front I expect 51 to 53 on a long run driven moderately to brisk, 43 round town and around 60 trying to save fuel. For a 4x4 with a resonable amount of pace I think this is OK. I have met few people who can travel more cheaply whatever they drive. I do tend to use teh 1750 to 2750 rev range most of the time and get the benefir of the torque. The thing to think about is whether you need the expense of winter tyres. Its costly if its just for appearances.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Just wondering if I should maybe buy a set of steels for the Goodyear tyres that were on the car? Probably a waste of money to be honest, I can't see me being able to sell the Goodyear tyres as postage and fitting will kill the value of them.

I posted a tyre a while back and it was around £10. Its still worth selling at that rate. Better than tyres going off and being wasted.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

175 75 R14 will give you pretty much the same O/D but there seem to be limited options available in that tyre size.
I'm looking to do something similar myself and would be interested to know how small a wheel will fit without changing discs or callipers.
Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I'm in Highland Perthshire by Loch Tay.

regards

Andy

Did you spot you were replying to a post from six months ago, and a thread that’s even older?

 

[Legendsailing]

Did you spot you were replying to a post from six months ago, and a thread that’s even older?

Yes

 

[Rondine]

175 75 R14 will give you pretty much the same O/D but there seem to be limited options available in that tyre size.
I'm looking to do something similar myself and would be interested to know how small a wheel will fit without changing discs or callipers.
Whereabouts in Scotland are you? I'm in Highland Perthshire by Loch Tay.

regards

Andy

I'm in Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire. Have been too busy lately to look in detail at my Panda 4x4 but read the mails flagged up for my attention.
Have had a Westfalia tow bar fitted.
Winter here was light and I managed well on original new Conti summer tyres, ( while my wife was in her Smart Forfour 0.9 DSG with all season Vredesteins ).
Bought the FIAT nearly new in Aug. 23, on A.Clark
Click and collect from Elgin, Renault ( v.good
Service ) Slow down south to sort build quality issues under warranty : Gaping wheel arch trims and door pillar plastic film poorly fitted.

Regards,
' Rondine '

 

[Legendsailing]

I'm in Lochwinnoch, Renfrewshire. Have been too busy lately to look in detail at my Panda 4x4 but read the mails flagged up for my attention.
Have had a Westfalia tow bar fitted.
Winter here was light and I managed well on original new Conti summer tyres, ( while my wife was in her Smart Forfour 0.9 DSG with all season Vredesteins ).
Bought the FIAT nearly new in Aug. 23, on A.Clark
Click and collect from Elgin, Renault ( v.good
Service ) Slow down south to sort build quality issues under warranty : Gaping wheel arch trims and door pillar plastic film poorly fitted.

Regards,
' Rondine '

The Smart Forfour was one of the options I looked at for getting up and down my driveway (steep and gravel) I reckoned rear wheel drive and rear engine would go up no problem. Twenty two years ago I had a Fiat X1/9 and that went up and down similar driveways with ease, and in the 12 years I had it and the 140,000 miles I did in it (and it had 25,000 miles on it when I bought it) I never had any problems with the suspension or running gear. What's the fuel economy like on the Smart Forfour? I lived in Linwood 1971-77 and did my first Sailing on Castle Semple Loch. I'm planning to fit a tow bar myself, what are you towing with yours?


Regards


Andy

 

[Rondine]

The Smart Forfour was one of the options I looked at for getting up and down my driveway (steep and gravel) I reckoned rear wheel drive and rear engine would go up no problem. Twenty two years ago I had a Fiat X1/9 and that went up and down similar driveways with ease, and in the 12 years I had it and the 140,000 miles I did in it (and it had 25,000 miles on it when I bought it) I never had any problems with the suspension or running gear. What's the fuel economy like on the Smart Forfour? I lived in Linwood 1971-77 and did my first Sailing on Castle Semple Loch. I'm planning to fit a tow bar myself, what are you towing with yours?


Regards


Andy

The Panda 4x4 can tow max 800kg braked and 400kg unbraked, and I tow a galv.steel older unbraked trailer similar to the Erde trailers from Halfords, mainly for garden refuse.

The only time I followed the Smart Forfour 0.9 DSG fuel consumption was when I was short of fuel, and driving very economically,
getting 54 mpg. This with non original all season tyres. See Real MPG, Honest John which gives 35 to54 mpg , 44, average, 2014 to 2019.
Interestingly the site figures for Panda 4x4 are 32 to 66 mpg, 47.1 average. They only refer to a 1.2 litre engine ! and cover 2012 to 2023.
Our Panda 4x4 0.9 litres 2 cylinders 83 hp. Our Smart Forfour, not 4 wheeldrive !, 0.9 litres 3 cylinders 88 hp.

Regards,
Rondine

 

[JayAre]

Falken v Michelin CC
My 18 yo Panda 3 4x4 (169), which I recently part-ex’d for my Panda 4 4x4 (312/9), did 73k under my 14yr keeperage (92k total) during which it had new full sets including:
Falken AS
- became needed during autumn (when AS become unavailable!) and the only AS I’d seen reviewed (albeit ‘average’ score)
- they were cheap!
- Economy was slightly down and I always slowed down driving through heavy rain and waterlogged roads (scored poorly here and I sometimes felt the steering go a little light but was never ‘caught out’)
- I was surprised by their comfort +quietness after the M+S Vreds.
- Performance in deep snow was also pretty decent
- Sadly, wear rate wasn’t - got less than 25k before changed to….
Michelin CrossClimates - about 1 year after launch so I guess these were CC1 (I never confirmed)
- Everything was good
- wear rate was exceptional (still plenty of tread when I p/ex’d in May)

Question
My ‘new’ 2016 4x4 has different Continental tyres on each axle:
“All Season Contact” (directional) - front
“Cross Contact Winter” (not directional) - rear
Is this legal+safe? All tyres have plenty of tread (fronts look new)
Cheers
Jay

 

[Bonefish Blues]

It's legal.