Technical Panda 4x4 clonking/juddering

[Jamie KC]

First chance to get under and have a look today. No dead found.

Pic of centre bearing attached, likely has been replaced as doesnae look that old, and rubber support appears to be moving around as intended and doing its job well.

Gonna start with changing the diff fluid and greasing joints, see what’s what!

When solved, or at a dead end, will report back.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Two interesting observations based on your photo:
First, I think that whole propshaft has been replaced - the universal joint and its fitting to the tube is different to mine (see my photo) and it all looks very clean compared to the rest of the underside.
And second, note the ring of grease spots on the car, being flung out from that universal joint. I wonder if that is where your clonking is coming from? Mine is dry there (the bearings are sealed)

In my photo you can see the beginnings of a little deterioration of the rubber ring: five years and 47000 miles old. There's a long way to go on that though before I need to do anything

 

[Panda IIs]

Two interesting observations based on your photo:
First, I think that whole propshaft has been replaced - the universal joint and its fitting to the tube is different to mine (see my photo) and it all looks very clean compared to the rest of the underside.
And second, note the ring of grease spots on the car, being flung out from that universal joint. I wonder if that is where your clonking is coming from? Mine is dry there (the bearings are sealed)

In my photo you can see the beginnings of a little deterioration of the rubber ring: five years and 47000 miles old. There's a long way to go on that though before I need to do anything

View attachment 428589

@Herts Hillhopper you beat me to it and I actually went and looked under the car (this time...). I would agree a replacement propshaft and relatively recently (note relatively clean marker on UJ circlip). Do you know if the prop shafts are dynamically balanced (originally) maybe this is part of the issue?

Pleased for the local squirrel population!

 

[tomdee]

You can test it without the axle, but then you'll notice a slight grinding sound due the lack of the axle. It'll come mostly from back differential.

 

[Jamie KC]

Two interesting observations based on your photo:
First, I think that whole propshaft has been replaced - the universal joint and its fitting to the tube is different to mine (see my photo) and it all looks very clean compared to the rest of the underside.
And second, note the ring of grease spots on the car, being flung out from that universal joint. I wonder if that is where your clonking is coming from? Mine is dry there (the bearings are sealed)

In my photo you can see the beginnings of a little deterioration of the rubber ring: five years and 47000 miles old. There's a long way to go on that though before I need to do anything

View attachment 428589

The whole prop does look fairly clean under there, so it may well be that it has been replaced. The ring of grease seems relatively dry, so I wonder if that was from the old bearing, and may indicate why the prop has been replaced.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I wonder… if it’s been replaced, are all the bolts tight in the flanges where the shaft meets the PTU and rear diff…

 

[Jamie KC]

I wonder… if it’s been replaced, are all the bolts tight in the flanges where the shaft meets the PTU and rear diff…

Cheers. Will check. Although seems that would be an all the time issue, as opposed to only when it has thoroughly warmed up.

 

[tomdee]

Cheers. Will check. Although seems that would be an all the time issue, as opposed to only when it has thoroughly warmed up.

Also have in mind that metals once heated tend to expand and play is more noticeable.

 

[Jamie KC]

So, seems I am now noise free. Fluids not changed, joints not greased. Was due to get that sorted in the next week.

On Saturday morning I had four new tyres fitted, and it was surprisingly quiet on the way home.

Took it for a 45min spin last night, all quiet.

Took it for a 60min+ spin this morn, all quiet.

Seems that tyre circumference issues may have been in play here. They weren’t evenly worn front to back, and although the same size they were different brands. All wee worn in inner and outer edges hence a complete new set of boots. It defo wasn’t a loose wheel nut kinda issue.

Ding dong the noise is gone!

 

[The Panda Nut]

So, seems I am now noise free. Fluids not changed, joints not greased. Was due to get that sorted in the next week.

On Saturday morning I had four new tyres fitted, and it was surprisingly quiet on the way home.

Took it for a 45min spin last night, all quiet.

Took it for a 60min+ spin this morn, all quiet.

Seems that tyre circumference issues may have been in play here. They weren’t evenly worn front to back, and although the same size they were different brands. All wee worn in inner and outer edges hence a complete new set of boots. It defo wasn’t a loose wheel nut kinda issue.

Ding dong the noise is gone!

Thanks for reporting back. Now you say this I bought a Golf that was the same. New tyres fixed that too. Glad you have got to the bottom of it. We need to remmeber to do all the obvious things and easy things first before blaming the many Fiat idocyncracies which have affected us over many many miles.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Different makes of tyre has a big part to play as there will have been differences in rolling resistance, maybe in the temperature they reached and so the pressure after a long drive. It’s not good practice to mix brands across the car, and not ideal end to end either. With the 4x4 (actually with *any* 4x4), it’s also quite important to try and keep the tread depths similar all round too, by doing a back-to-front swap as they begin to wear noticeably. This helps ensure the wheel speeds remain consistent - remember it’s a change in speed of one wheel compared to the others that is being watched by the system that decides when to engage the rear drive.

My first ever car tended to pull to one side, even though tracking and tyre pressures were correct. That turned out to be through having a different brand of tyre on each front wheel.

 

[Dhirsch]

Hi all, my fiat panda 1.3 diesel 4x4 2013 is having the same issue. Clunking noise at low speeds and low revs especially in gear 2 when driving straight and slightly more around corners. The noise resolves when at higher speeds (30km+) and in higher gears. Switching on ELD makes no difference.

I think it's the rear differential(?) as I had the prop shaft replaced. I have 4 new wheels on which have had no change to clunking. Theres no oil leakage, no smoke from exhaust.

Did anyone get to the bottom of the problem? Or have any suggestions on what to do?
Much appreciated

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Hi all, my fiat panda 1.3 diesel 4x4 2013 is having the same issue. Clunking noise at low speeds and low revs especially in gear 2 when driving straight and slightly more around corners. The noise resolves when at higher speeds (30km+) and in higher gears. Switching on ELD makes no difference.

I think it's the rear differential(?) as I had the prop shaft replaced. I have 4 new wheels on which have had no change to clunking. Theres no oil leakage, no smoke from exhaust.

Did anyone get to the bottom of the problem? Or have any suggestions on what to do?
Much appreciated

Switching ELD unlikely to make any difference…

You say propshaft has been replaced - presume the noise was there before and remains after? If so that’s eliminated the propshaft central bearing which can lead to knocking noises…

 

[The Panda Nut]

I'm thinking you need to get underneath and have a look at the propshaft bearing for starters. From other threads on here I believe you will see it has a bonded rubber layer. Start by looking for any obvious signs of the rubber debonding or "excessive" movement??

The bearing is available at around £40. It could be this. You can get eyes on this from under the car. Its just a bonded rubber thing so prone to wear and tear.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The bearing is available at around £40. It could be this. You can get eyes on this from under the car. Its just a bonded rubber thing so prone to wear and tear.

But very likely the bearing was replaced with the rest of the propshaft - it comes pre-fitted.

 

[The Panda Nut]

But very likely the bearing was replaced with the rest of the propshaft - it comes pre-fitted.

Agreed. That post about tyres still keeps coming to mind. Diesels dont have DMF I believe. I wonder if the prop its self may be faulty. The diff is not limited slip, so I feel its not likely to be the culptit. May be try disconnecting the 4x4 solenoid / Eld wires and see if that affects things?

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Agreed. That post about tyres still keeps coming to mind. Diesels dont have DMF I believe. I wonder if the prop its self may be faulty. The diff is not limited slip, so I feel its not likely to be the culptit. May be try disconnecting the 4x4 solenoid / Eld wires and see if that affects things?

They do

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Hi all, my fiat panda 1.3 diesel 4x4 2013 is having the same issue. Clunking noise at low speeds and low revs especially in gear 2 when driving straight and slightly more around corners. The noise resolves when at higher speeds (30km+) and in higher gears. Switching on ELD makes no difference.

I think it's the rear differential(?) as I had the prop shaft replaced. I have 4 new wheels on which have had no change to clunking. Theres no oil leakage, no smoke from exhaust.

Did anyone get to the bottom of the problem? Or have any suggestions on what to do?
Much appreciated

How many miles and has the clutch and dmf ever been replaced? That second gear noise is familiar to me, disappearing at higher speeds

 

[Dhirsch]

How many miles and has the clutch and dmf ever been replaced? That second gear noise is familiar to me, disappearing at higher speeds

I just bought the car for the Poles of Inconvenience Race she has 128,000 miles on the clock. I'm unsure if the clutch. It feels like the rear differential is the issue

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Agreed. That post about tyres still keeps coming to mind. Diesels dont have DMF I believe. I wonder if the prop its self may be faulty. The diff is not limited slip, so I feel its not likely to be the culptit. May be try disconnecting the 4x4 solenoid / Eld wires and see if that affects things?

I believe the diesels *do* have a DMF. Very rare to find a diesel without one (in general, not just Pandas)