Technical Our step no longer retracts automatically on ignition any ideas of where to look?

[GrumpyGran]

Hi we have a Swift Lifestyle 630g on a ducato 2.8. Some time ago the electric step stopped retracting automatically when the ignition went on. It still works reliably from the switch next to the door. We have traced as much of the wiring and checked connectors (where accessable), changed fuses but have not been able to find where the problem is.

Has anyone got any ideas?

 

[polyfrog99]

There will be a relay wired up to the ignition - either that relay or it's circuit has a fault.

Here's the Thule one for reference: https://www.jacksonsleisure.com/thule/caravan/motorhome/omnistep/steps/relay/

 

[HughJampton]

AFAIR, of that vintage the fridge 12v and the step auto retraction shared the split-charge relay(s)/fuse(s).

It may be that your fridge is also inoperative on 12v while driving?

I don't know if you've checked all the fuses, but I'd be looking under the black plastic cover at the rear/upper centre of the engine bay, as Swift were wont to put these relays and fuses under there. Two nuts off to remove, AFAIR)

FWIW, this is likely to be the appropriate wiring diagram.

https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/25/download/255

 

[GrumpyGran]

Thanks for your very helpful replies. Its a 2007 model so the original van before the teardrop lights came in.

To the best of my knowledge the fridge is working OK on 12v. We do tend to have it on mains overnight before travelling (so its ready to pack) but its always been frosty in the icebox mid journey, with everything frozen (that should be) on arrival. I'm going to double check though as OH has used it the last few times and its possible hes not noticed?????

I dont think we checked under the bonnet so will get onto that next.

 

[Communicator]

As Hugh has suggested there are probably two relays under the cover at the rear of the engine bay. Hoses to unclip and two off M6 nuts (10 mm spanner) to remove.

On the linked diagram the two relays at the top LH corner are the fridge and split charge relays.

Take care when working in this area as both batteries are connected to the split charge relay.

Both relays are operated from D+ (alternator field) when the engine is running. This does not fit with your statement the the step retracted "when the ignition went on". Perhaps you meant when the engine started?

There is the possibility of corroded connections on the relays. The fridge relay is the one the LH one in the diagram. When operated by D+, this relay connects a supply from the vehicle battery to fuse 2 (15A) on the 4 way fuseblock. Rd/Ye wire tapped at switched relay terminal (87?) is used to operate the step relay and buzzer lower down diagram.

In resting state both sides of the step motor are connected to -ve via the manual switch. On starting the engine the step relay changes the connection on one side of the motor to vehicle batt +ve. The step retracts until a limit switch in the step cuts the negative connection for the step relay coil, and the warning buzzer.

In some early versions of the step the limit switch can corrode, or become fouled with deposits.

 

[Communicator]

I have just read your post #4 above. You say original model before before tear drop lights. I think that your base vehicle will be a 2006 x244 (See vehicle number on VIN plate at top of radiator, or in V5C registration document, probably ZFA244xxxxxxxx.

 

[GrumpyGran]

Both relays are operated from D+ (alternator field) when the engine is running. This does not fit with your statement the the step retracted "when the ignition went on". Perhaps you meant when the engine started?

Yes that makes sense. Sorry I just assumed it was linked to the ignition.

 

[Ronnie63]

Had the same problem on our 2002 Ducato but fridge also not working, the 2 relays and fuses were located on the inner wing drivers side behind the battery, all the connectors were corroded! Replaced the entire thing and fitted new crimp spades to the wires, step and fridge working again.

 

[HughJampton]

Thanks for your very helpful replies. Its a 2007 model so the original van before the teardrop lights came in.

The wiring diagrams remained similar to the end of production on that base, but just in case, this was the last (2006):

https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/25/download/257

The "Lifestyle" was probably a dealer special version of the Sundance, so that's the diagram you're looking at.

The fuses/relays could be anywhere, but given Swift custom and practice, my bet is where we've already discussed (and they are the first things I would check).

I spent a long time diagnosing a similar problem with someone, and eventually found that the associated wiring behind the vehicle battery in the engine compartment was corroded through (acid), so it is far from impossible that there is a wiring issue - the diagram should help with that, but check the easy things first!.

 

[lancepar]

Have you tried some contact cleaner sprayed on the switch the step arms contact?

 

[GrumpyGran]

We have just looked in the black box in the engine bay, and found a block of fuses with 1 x 10v and 2 x 20v fuses. While the 10v (blue?) has clear contacts, the socket underneath is corroded and crumbling. So first thing to check, whatever its connecting it clearly needs sorting.

OH has apparently left all his spare fuses with his mate half way down the country (banging head against favourite wall lol!)

He is in the middle of replacing the cross member and doing some remedial work prior to fitting the new one. Also fitting a new radiator at the same time while everything is out as it had some signs of leakage. We are waiting on some new bolts arriving. So it will be a good few days before the batteries are reconnected and can investigate further.

 

[HughJampton]

Conventionally, there should be two 20A (not V ) fuses, one each to protect the leisure and vehicle batteries, and a 15A one to protect/supply the fridge and step. I can't remember if they're blade fuses in there, but I suspect so, and as such blue would be 15A.

It isn't entirely conclusive, but it certainly looks like the first thing to eliminate.

 

[Ronnie63]

This is the exact fuse box that was on mine

Fuse Box 4 Way for Standard Blade Fuses ATO Holder / Block Base Entry | eBay

4 Way Fuse Box for Standard Blade Fuses. Standard Blade Fuses are 18mm wide .

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[GrumpyGran]

The wiring diagrams remained similar to the end of production on that base, but just in case, this was the last (2006):

https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/25/download/257

The "Lifestyle" was probably a dealer special version of the Sundance, so that's the diagram you're looking at.

The fuses/relays could be anywhere, but given Swift custom and practice, my bet is where we've already discussed (and they are the first things I would check).

I spent a long time diagnosing a similar problem with someone, and eventually found that the associated wiring behind the vehicle battery in the engine compartment was corroded through (acid), so it is far from impossible that there is a wiring issue - the diagram should help with that, but check the easy things first!.

Thanks again for the updated schematic.

 

[GrumpyGran]

This is the exact fuse box that was on mine

Fuse Box 4 Way for Standard Blade Fuses ATO Holder / Block Base Entry | eBay

4 Way Fuse Box for Standard Blade Fuses. Standard Blade Fuses are 18mm wide .

www.ebay.co.uk

Conventionally, there should be two 20A (not V ) fuses, one each to protect the leisure and vehicle batteries, and a 15A one to protect/supply the fridge and step. I can't remember if they're blade fuses in there, but I suspect so, and as such blue would be 15A.

It isn't entirely conclusive, but it certainly looks like the first thing to eliminate.

Ooooops

 

[GrumpyGran]

The fuse box arrived this morning and a friend dropped off a bag of fuses. All fitted and fuses tested but sadly the step still isn't retracted with the engine. Still not sure what else was connected to those fuses but either way its at least one coroded connection eliminated from the search.

So looks like it migh be one of the relays. The one behind the battery seems like a good place to start.

 

[Ronnie63]

The fuse box arrived this morning and a friend dropped off a bag of fuses. All fitted and fuses tested but sadly the step still isn't retracted with the engine. Still not sure what else was connected to those fuses but either way its at least one coroded connection eliminated from the search.

So looks like it migh be one of the relays. The one behind the battery seems like a good place to start.

Check the wire coming off the alternator into the loom that goes to the fuses and 2 relays it could be corroded

 

[GrumpyGran]

If the step buzzer stopped working would that stop the step working when the engine started. As far as I can remember the buzzer only sounded on engine start and not when operating the doorside up/down switch (which is still functioning). Can anyone confirm the usual location of the buzzer? I think the sound came from the engine bay but OH is not convinced.

I've been studying the circuit diagram and have at least identified the fuses, relays weve already checked. We dont appear to have the same wiring colours so OH is going to go back under the step and see if we can trace whats been connected.

 

[HughJampton]

The buzzer is (conventionally) wired in parallel to the step-retraction circuit, so I think it's lack of working is a symptom, rather than a cause, of the problem. It could be located anywhere, but I'd think the engine compartment is unlikely. Common locations are under either the driver's or passenger's seat, or, if the kitchen is near the habitation door, behind the kitchen drawers or cupboard. Generally a small black unit.

I'm pretty sure there are two relays, one for split charge, and one for fridge 12v, the latter also supplying the step retraction*. I don't think we've yet been told whether fridge 12v is actually working. Since the problem doesn't appear to be the dodgy fuse box, I'd want to check the 15A fuse position for 12V when the engine is running. It's relatively easy to access, and focuses the next step(s).

If 12v is present (and the fridge is OK), then the issue is in the wiring from the fuses to the step, or the step internal controls/relay. If 12v is not present, then you're looking at the circuit upstream of the fusebox, the wiring, the relay and the D+ signal from the alternator.

*It appears that the EMC relay is also fed from the same relay/fuse as the step. If it hasn't been messed with (as sometimes people have), a significant amount of the internal lighting should go off with the engine running. If this happens then it confirms there is power through to the 15A fuse in the fusebox.

 

[GrumpyGran]

As far as I know the fridge has been working OK on 12v, as the ice box has always been freezing and frosty mid journey. when we stop for tea.