General New Panda Twinair Dualogic - production stopped?

[Ingvarr]

This will definitely teach me not to stick my neck into these buy-a-built-to-order-car "deals". I mean, paying huge premium only to find that manufacturers extending the delivery date as they see fit... no, thanks.

 

[Leap]

This will definitely teach me not to stick my neck into these buy-a-built-to-order-car "deals". I mean, paying huge premium only to find that manufacturers extending the delivery date as they see fit... no, thanks.

True, but then you're stick with the stock your local dealers deem fit to order, which in my case will be the lowest powered engine, with the most basic spec and in the blandest colours, and god forbid you might ask for something as exotic as an automatic transmission!

 

[homeward]

True, but then you're stick with the stock your local dealers deem fit to order, which in my case will be the lowest powered engine, with the most basic spec and in the blandest colours, and god forbid you might ask for something as exotic as an automatic transmission!

That'll teach me, won't it?!

As well as the Dualogic gearbox, we ordered nearly every option going (plus a whole heap of accessories...) -- as we're planning on keeping the car for a very long time. (Apart from the Low Speed Collision Mitigation system, of course -- which wasn't available when we placed our order... -- but which I'm seriously thinking about asking to be fitted free as compensation....)

I'd still rather have the Panda than any of its supposed competition, though.... :worship:

 

[JTD_Liam]

manufacturers extending the delivery date as they see fit... no, thanks.

If you order a VW or Hyundai you could expect this to happen routinely. A 3-6 month wait seems the norm on VW, and some people wait even longer. At least Fiat usually get new-build orders out within 10 weeks. Our 500 TA with options was quoted as having a 10 week order-arrival time & arrived from factory in 7 weeks.

 

[Ingvarr]

If you order a VW or Hyundai you could expect this to happen routinely. A 3-6 month wait seems the norm on VW, and some people wait even longer. At least Fiat usually get new-build orders out within 10 weeks.

Of course. I am not saying that this is exclusive or worst for Fiat.
All I was saying that after all, buying a built to order car is definitely not for me. I was never constrained to "local" dealer (I am fine with crosscountry travel for interesting car), and its not that hard to find <1 year old "approved used" cars with great specs and condition (ex demos, etc), and they are there *now* to inspect, testdrive and buy. Not to mention the (in)famous "1st year deprecation" massive discount

 

[homeward]

Huzzah...! My dealer has notified me that our Panda is now "Fixed in Production" for week 42...

Got this, in an email from my very helpful dealer, earlier today:

On my return to work today I... was pleasantly surprised to find an update to your order. Nothing to get too excited about as it hasn't progressed through the build yet but it has received an updated week of confirmation, now week 38 (4 weeks earlier than previous) which is the second from last week in September, its left me very curious as to if they have now struck upon the answer to the original problem affecting production.​

Nothing from FIAT Customer Care, yet, but...

 

[homeward]

I'm hoping this update -- from my dealer -- gives a little more encouragement to ayone else who has a Panda TA Dualogic on order (rather than looking like I've unilaterally taken over the thread...):

I don't want to get your hopes up too much but the build week has moved forward another 2 weeks and an invoice date inline with the build week has been added to the logistics system (I'm not sure if that actually means anything positive).

I have still got a close eye on it and check daily, so the moment anything changes I'll let you know.​

I know FIAT dealerships don't have the best reputation: but I think going to a family-owned, independent garage, like Grays, makes all the difference.

 

[Ingvarr]

I know FIAT dealerships don't have the best reputation: but I think going to a family-owned, independent garage, like Grays, makes all the difference.

Funny thing, I've used them when I was living in Leamington Spa, and actually got my Panda from them. Small world

 

[homeward]

Our new baby Panda has just arrived... -- and I think it looks rather smart in Sweet Dreams Turquoise...!

"What a curious feeling!" said Alice; "I must be shutting up like a telescope."​

Oh, if only...

 

[Masaq]

Of course. I am not saying that this is exclusive or worst for Fiat.
All I was saying that after all, buying a built to order car is definitely not for me. I was never constrained to "local" dealer (I am fine with crosscountry travel for interesting car), and its not that hard to find <1 year old "approved used" cars with great specs and condition (ex demos, etc), and they are there *now* to inspect, testdrive and buy. Not to mention the (in)famous "1st year deprecation" massive discount

My new Panda is a lease car, built to order and spec; order was placed in April. It arrived this week - sure it took a while but not an unreasonable length of time in my book.

If it hadn't been a lease I'd never have bought new though, not because of the need to get it soon but simply for the lost value through depreciation.

 

[homeward]

My new Panda is a lease car, built to order and spec; order was placed in April. It arrived this week - sure it took a while but not an unreasonable length of time in my book.

Not so sure I agree anymore... -- although I may be feeling grumpy: laid up, as I am, as a result of a recent kidney op....

Not totally sure that I should be posting this, either: but I've run out of ideas; and think I'm finally fed up (to the back teeth, as my grandad would have said...) with being messed around by FIAT... -- and, therefore, have just emailed the following (slightly edited/redacted) to FIAT Customer Care (who, incidentally, over a month ago, promised to call me every two or three weeks, to let me know the progress of our order...):

...to cut a long story short, we ordered a new Panda TwinAir Dualogic... over three months ago; and we had been informed that -- because of some unspecified technical problem -- production of this combination of engine and gearbox had been halted.

Last time I spoke to the dealer, he told me that the logistics system showed production being scheduled for next week.

However, I have since received an email from him, which contains the following information:

I've just spoken to somebody from the Panda Product Team (first time in the last year I have managed to speak to a Product Team), they believe the LoSCraMS... should be available to order from as little as 2 weeks to a month maximum. I did also ask about the TwinAir Dualogic but unfortunately all I could get out of him was that it was a technical issue relating to the dualogic/twinair combination, he did say that they are hoping production would start no later than November...​

Initially, we were promised a thirteen-week delivery time (which would have been 20 August 2012); but decided to stay with FIAT, principally because of the care and attention shown by our dealer... -- although I must admit that we have also struggled to find a car that suits our needs (and wants) quite as well as the Panda. (I have even bought a 2002 Punto, to tide us over... -- although I now feel that this was somewhat misplaced loyalty....)

I therefore have the following questions:

1. When is our Panda actually scheduled to be produced -- September, or November; or...?

2. What actually is the problem which has delayed production? (I struggle to believe that there is much fundamentally wrong with the engine/'box combination: when it has been available in the 500 for several years. I also know of people on the continent who have already taken delivery of such a new Panda....)

3. What are you prepared to offer, to compensate us for the delay? (The reason that the Low Speed Crash Mitigation System is mentioned in my dealer's email is that it has been suggested that this -- at least -- could be fitted free for us, as it is soon to be made available. I am also tempted to ask for the Rear Parking Sensors, as well....)


As you can probably tell from the tone of this email, my patience is running short... -- especially as other competing brands have been able to offer us delivery of similarly-spec'd vehicles within days or weeks, rather than months....

I therefore look forward to hearing from you immediately, please.

Kind regards...​

Any comments -- positive or negative -- will be welcomed.

 

[Ulpian]

I can understand your frustration.

If they could only be honest and state that due to summer factory closures all manufacturing has been put on hold. Somebody in Italy must know what's going on, and it can't be that hard to let international markets know. We can deal with the truth and plan around it but evasion and silence only leads to resentment and upset. And lost sales.

I am looking at the 4x4 Panda now myself, but when will it be introduced, and at what price? Somebody must know, but the customer will be kept in the dark until the last. I hope they tell us in September.

This is not only the case with Fiat of course, they all treat the customer with indifference, but with the car market in the doldrums and Fiat in real trouble you'd think they'd be pulling out all the stops.

The problem is that the things you have asked for as gratuities look like they are factory fitments, and how can they organise them I wonder, even if they care about your order?

 

[homeward]

The problem is that the things you have asked for as gratuities look like they are factory fitments, and how can they organise them I wonder, even if they care about your order?

Firstly, thank you for your reply. It is much appreciated... -- and I believe everything you say is true....

There are two main reasons for asking for "factory fitments":

1. If the car really isn't going into production for a while, I'd like FIAT to (at least) make the effort of sorting this out... -- especially as these are the only two things we didn't spec...! -- by putting things right at source. (And I have been informed that, if we don't have a firm production date, we can still change the options....)
2. I, in no way, attribute this delay to the dealer: they have been as much left in the dark as we have... -- and I therefore don't want them bearing the cost. (I admit that no dealership is perfect: but we have been treated with a great deal of respect, honesty and courtesy, so far... -- even by the parts department, when asking about stuff to do with the Punto....)

Thanks, again....

 

[Ulpian]

Fair enough, and very sensible. Thank you. I too have no probelms with my local dealer by the way, in fact, although I am looking all over the marketplace there is a great part of me wanting to stick with Fiat, not only because I like the cleverness of the cars, but because my local dealer has always been very good and helpful.

That may surprise some people of course, but I mean it.

Next year Renault will have the new (very pretty) Clio and VW will have yet another Golf clone, but doubtless it will be a very good car. What with the Skodas and the Koreans et al Fiat has a very hard job to do. The 500 and Panda are practically unique, in that they are very good, but also have charm. The Ups, Picantos and i10s of this world are doubtless good or very good too, but they are totally characterless, and I know that because I've driven all of them.

But charm isn't enough. The Clio will hurt both the Punto and, I believe, the 500. It will also, in conjunction with the new Golf, hurt the Alfas - like Alfa needs more damage - so Fiat needs to charm its customers like never before.

I hope you get good news from Fiat soon

 

[Super Uwe]

Wow - that really is poor indeed. Quite agree that your dealer has been very helpful, but disappointing that Fiat CS hasn't kept to its promises.

I can only wish you all the best - and you are most certainly well within your rights to ask for some freebies. If they won't do that then I'd certainly ask for some vouchers to pay towards servicing costs instead). You can't be expected to wait forever!

Just keep on with your approach though - I used to work in a customer service/CRM role and the one thing I can definitely say "on the other side of the fence" is that people who maintain a consistent and firm approach without getting overly aggressive tend to get the end result they are looking for. You can't be too nicey-nicey and hands-off as you won't get taken seriously, but at the same time it's no good rubbing people up the wrong way either.

Good luck, I just hope you do get the car in the end as I am sure it will be worth the wait

 

[homeward]

I used to work in a customer service/CRM role...

I, too, worked in marketing: and I think that's what makes matters worse.... It takes very little effort to be helpful, resulting in a positive reputation for the company involved; but even less effort to be absolutely useless....

For example, here is the (slightly redacted) reply I got from FIAT, this afternoon. My reply to them was, er, firm, and just a tad assertive....

Dear Mr Ward... Thank you for contacting FIAT Customer Relations. Unfortunately we are unable to locate your existing case based on the information you have provided. Please can you provide the following information by replying to this email - Registration and chassis numbers - Name of dealership visited - Mileage - Full contact details I await your response Yours sincerely... Customer Information Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd​

Apart from the case number (which I couldn't find -- because, as I explained in my original email, I'm laid up, after a recent kidney op...), and the "Registration and chassis numbers" and "Mileage" (of a yet-to-be-built (I hope) car), all the requested information was contained in my initial communication. I even name-checked the member of FIAT Customer Care staff who had been my initial contact....

They obviously didn't read it; and replied with their version of what my dad calls a "standard flea letter" (after a reply he once had from Virgin Trains...)!

If you listen carefully, you'll be able to hear me screaming... -- even in Naples....

 

[homeward]

Just keep on with your approach though - I used to work in a customer service/CRM role and the one thing I can definitely say "on the other side of the fence" is that people who maintain a consistent and firm approach without getting overly aggressive tend to get the end result they are looking for. You can't be too nicey-nicey and hands-off as you won't get taken seriously, but at the same time it's no good rubbing people up the wrong way either.

Precisely! This, just in...

Dear Mr Ward, Thank you for contacting FIAT Customer Relations. I would like to apologise for the inconvenience of my previous email to you, we could not locate your case number due to system issues which has been rectified enabling me to access your original case number.... Your emails has been attached to the case and sent through to [my initial contact], he will be contacting you soon Please do not hesitate to contact us in the future were you to have any further query. Yours sincerely... Customer Information Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd​

I've asked "my initial contact" to email me, because:

1. from hereon in, I want things in writing; and
2. my kidney's killing me (not literally: but it hurts like heck...): and I'm therefore struggling to use (let alone be coherent on) the phone!

Watch this space...!

 

[homeward]

As its sales continue to drop across Europe, Fiat's Pomigliano d'Arco factory, the home of the brand's only new range model, the third generation Panda, is set to see production halted for an extra two weeks following the usual summer break. That month long scheduled holiday period starts on 23 July.

It's catching, I'm afraid.... :shrug:

From today's Guardian:

General Motors is stopping production for a week at the Vauxhall plants in Ellesmere Port and Luton after warning that the eurozone crisis has hit car purchases on the continent.

The sites will stage a "down week" from 24 September after Vauxhall decided that a prolonged hiatus would be preferable to a stop-start regime over the winter as European demand fluctuates. The move comes less than four months after Ellesmere Port was saved from closure, preserving 2,100 jobs, having secured a deal to build the next-generation Astra at the Wirral-based factory....​

The rest of the article makes for very sombre reading; and I must admit that I find the situation quite worrying: not only for British manufacturing; but for the car industry, as a whole... -- particularly in Europe....

 

[Ingvarr]

Not enough new car demand. While its understandable and its uneconomical to run assembly line without demand, it would help for them at least to, say, set definite dates/time periods when factory is working. To give people definite dates when new cars will be made so they could plan their purchase accordingly and avoid frustration due to "surprise" delays sprung on them, when they already paid.

 

[homeward]

Just got this email... -- so, as much as we want the Panda, I'm seriously thinking of cancelling our order: as we need a new car earlier than November; and there's no guarantee, even then, of course, that we'll ever get ours....

Dear Mr Ward... Re: Fiat Panda Thank you for contacting Fiat Group Autmobiles UK Ltd. Please be advised all production has now stopped on the new Fiat Panda Dualogic transmission due to technical issues. At this moment we do not have any confirmed dates as to when the production may commence other than an estimation of mid to end of November 2012. Please accept our sincere apologies for any inconvenience this may cause. Should you require any further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact our Customer Relations team on 00800 3428 0000, choosing option 4. Yours sincerely... Customer Relations on behalf of Fiat Group Automobiles UK Ltd​

As I'm currently lying in bed, with a very sore kidney, I am not happy; and don't know how I'm supposed to get out there and test-drive possible replacements (none of which come close to the Panda, of course...).

FIAT's customer service s*cks, I'm afraid.... :shakehead: