General New Fiat 600

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General New Fiat 600

The thing at the moment is that the whole industry is trying to create a range of electric vehicles. Fiat, sadly, were rather behind the curve which was one reason for their merger with PSA. PSA had a good coverage of electric models but very poor dealership presence in North and South America, so it was a marriage of convenience.

The upshot is that any current Fiat is going to be (must be) engineered on PSA electrickery because that's the cheapest and quickest way to get a car into the dealerships. I think we'll be in lean times (universally, not just at Fiat/Stellantis) for the next few years as models are established and ranges are stabilised.

When the EV commotion dies down, then manufacturers will look at replacement models.. and then they will know what works for which brand and what doesn't. The next gen' (probably post-2028/30) models might get interesting again. At the moment it's badge engineering, on steroids to be fair, or keep pedalling your old fossil fuelled motors a bit longer.


Ralf S.
 
were rather behind the curve which was one reason for their merger with PSA
Without a doubt, this played a huge role in the merger.

Though I don't think Fiat were being as 'lazy', or 'blind' as it seems. I think they were taking a Toyota approach to be honest, I think they seen the EV thing for what many of us see it as, a fad that will pass and possibly be around forever as a big part of motoring. But I don't think they seriously imagined the legislative changes from the EU and the deadlines from 2050 back to 2030. I'd say that "We're serious" legislation is what really put Fiat's stance and hesitance to jump into it as early as others into the red zone.

Had it not been for the legislation I'm pretty sure they'd not have felt the need to merge. They probably would have slowly but surely rolled out their own platforms based on the current 500e and made true on a bunch of the promises from around the Centoventi concept - modular batteries, bolt on accessories etc across its own FCA brand portfolio. Whether or not it would have worked, who knows.

I liked the idea at the time, modular batteries. Stopping at a dealer or petrol station (in theory) to swap out my cells for charged ones and pay a fee. Then, as technology gets better, the cells get better too. But then... in reality that's just too constraining. The same reason our phones and laptop now all have built in batteries is to eliminate the weight, complexity and limitation of the structure needed to hold a removeable battery, the cell itself structure to contain the metals, etc etc. It's much better to just design it into the chassis, as all the modern BEVs do - especially to push them to the extremes they need to be at to be useful in the real world. And heating...cooling...structure of the entire car. I suppose it's not as easy to get todays BEV performance from a 2010s era 'EV' without a serious, serious long term platform akin to Tesla like PSA and others were working on. Fiat definitely had a slower and perhaps outdated approach to that 'part' of their business that was going to be BEV options.

The legislation definitely made the **** hit the fan for them. Being an EU firm, they can't escape it really. Though I'd say those who have taken it seriously haven't done much better ... VAG, Mercedes et al... They have better products in terms of BEV tech. But it's missing one key thing... consumer demand. Those companies did what they were 'supposed' to do, which Fiat didn't. Axed all their beloved models. Threw the baby out with the bathwater with all new EV only lines incoming. Only to have to backtrack again, because there's no[t enough] demand. Sony make some amazing TVs, truly superior to the £100 Currys specials that me, all my friends and family have on their walls - no comparison that Sony makes a better product but at least in its case it can survive with relatively low volume. I'm not sure going 'all in' on EVs leaves much hope for any car company with how things are going to survive.

Fiat's usual high-volume, older platforms have been keeping it alive at least since the millennium with the Panda and 500. That probably won't cut it in the era of BEVs. A cheap, low powered no-thrills car could actually take you further than a decked out Range Rover on the same drops of petrol. It also could last just as long with repairs and maintenance, if not longer because there was less to go wrong. For the lowest income, most extreme circumstances car owners, they were accessible and had their own benefits against the Rolls Royce's on the road. Fiat capitalised on this as have all the other quirky and best selling small cars over the decades. I'd argue this cannot and does not exist in the EV space. Even the Dacia Spring... crapper range than the cream of the crop BEVs and still, every bit as much working against the owner in terms of things ageing and going wrong, the same limited repair options except the owner less likely to fork over the cash because they won't have it, but even if they did, won't make economical sense on such a small, low market value car in reality. How can Fiat fit into this now?

There is no putting in 15 years ago EV tech and keeping it around in a low cost, appealing to the masses fashion like they did with the FIRE engine. Because there's no new, current Fiat model with say... 2014 Renault Zoe level battery and motor tech in it. In 15 years, rare earth materials like lithium and cobalt, at this trajectory, aren't coming down in price. And you only need to go out and look at recycled water bottles or recycled fashion items to see that, actually, recycling and the energy that often goes into it can make the result more expensive, and more energy consuming despite justifying it as being worth it to be 'kind' to the planet. Will it find its way into the lowest price BEVs in the future? No way.

Anyway, to bring this back in, Fiat only needs to hold its own within Peugeot under Stellantis for a decade or two. I can see that down the line, within my lifetime, the Italian government or Italian investors deciding to split it off again - maybe when the legislation reverses or we see the fall or major competitors or more action on the streets from Joe Public and the resistance to be told what to buy. FYI, nobody forced us to buy smartphones... or flat screen TVs.. we all just bought into it ourselves, the prices dropped without government incentives, and now we'd never look back at our Nokia's or CRT box TVs. BEVs are cool but for every benefit there's a drawback, that wasn't the case with flat screen TVs or smartphones. For every shortcoming of the Nokia, the iPhone had about ten advantages to show for it.

So yeah, Fiat Automobiles S.p.a.... revival in, shall we say... 2040?!
 
The problem I have with the PSA mashup is that a lot of work went into the ‘Centro’, including its electrics, floor pan and styling, and it’s been dumped…we were promised it was going to be the Panda, it was innovative and it wasn’t a clone
 
I think your getting old and going off a bit LOL WHere your blinfold man. That must be the acid test. I shall insist on a blindfolded test in both. If I can tell which is a Fiat Ill buy it as long as I dont crash it on the test drive LOL
Update:
I CRASHED IT....
 
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