New Brava Model Training and Testing

[Ulpian]

Fair enough. I also thought £12000 + was ridiculous. But that was the price on the roof. It had the piano black fascia, and climate, so I really think it wasn't the lowest spec. Truth is, the salesman was unsure and kept saying that it was all new and the other models weren't in yet. He was out of his depth to tell the truth. Nice kid, and very new, so I hope he forgave me being a snotty know-all. If I ever buy a new car it will be from him.

Next week is launch time and so by then there might be a fairer comparison. I'd like to see the basic car for a proper balance.

I have no idea of the quality of Kias. Obviously, they are tempting in new buyers with a fantastic warranty. It is 10 years in the US by the way. But as a potential buyer (not, sadly) I might find myself very persuaded.

The Kia was a very comfortable place to sit though, and the ergonomics were very good indeed, and this is what I am talking about here really I suppose. And I agree about alloys. I couldn't care less myself; but the fakes on the Bravo were a bit obvious I thought.

I really want this car to sell, because I love Fiats, always have. I just hope it is reliable and can justify the price. I drove a VW Golf once myself and was bored to tears by it. Ditto the Polo - miserable little thing. I also know from someone who works in a dealer that VW reliability is a myth. Much ado about not much VWs , IMHO, and as for the other comparisons with the Bravo, I can't say. This is why its been so intersting hearing the comparisonns from you techs.

 

[D4nny8oy]

i was in a Hyundai dealers once when they gave a woman a £200 bill to replace what they said was seized manifold bolts, her car was only a few years old so i guess although exhaust is covered a dodgy dealer will say it don't cover seized bolts that snap off and get money out of you this way

Exactly. Just because they say an exhaust is "covered" doesn't mean it includes fair wear and tear, ie rust!- it's the same with everything. Warranty's normally cover manufacturing defects only.... still, some people think this means they can get new brake pads free of charge when they wear out!

 

[Ulpian]

i was in a Hyundai dealers once when they gave a woman a £200 bill to replace what they said was seized manifold bolts, her car was only a few years old so i guess although exhaust is covered a dodgy dealer will say it don't cover seized bolts that snap off and get money out of you this way

Exactly. Just because they say an exhaust is "covered" doesn't mean it includes fair wear and tear, ie rust!- it's the same with everything. Warranty's normally cover manufacturing defects only.... still, some people think this means they can get new brake pads free of charge when they wear out!

Only the Cee'd has the 7 year warranty, not the other models.

I truly believe they mean replacement of failed exhausts, for whatever reason: I was assured this was so because I was incredulous too. If, however, I was buying one, I would double check. Perhaps it's stainless?

As for the brakes and tyres; no-one is saying these are covered, and ayone who believes this is an eejut.

 

[D4nny8oy]

A few pics that I took- If I was to get one it would probably look like this!...

Should've taken more, but people were saying I'm sad!

225/45 R17's by the way! 18's are an option.

 

[thepottleflump]

I then went to look at a Kia Cee'd. Similar 1.4, 90bhp engine. Alloys as standard, oodles of back seat space, a very smart interior which, although not flashy exhibited real quality; a comfortable seat with good support, lots of pedal space and a foot rest; and still with A/C and all the other usual kit. The Bravo has climate control apparently. Big deal.

And the Fiat still has a three year warranty. The Cee'd has a SEVEN year warranty, and costs only £10,000. Save £2,500 and get four more years guarantee then.

Oh, I think Kia is doing the 1.6 diesel turbo for the price of the 1.4 petrol at the moment, but I might be mistaken here...

Kia need to offer a 7 year warranty to get people to buy it. You wouldn't go there otherwise. I'd rather have the Bravo with some Italian flair than a Korean Toyota Corolla lookalike. You get what you pay for. The Fiat is good value.

 

[auto_blanco]

that looks most excellent, will probably change my GPS in a couple of years for a nice 3 door version of that, im hoping the ride is good too really as my GP occasionnaly struggles with big potholes and speedbumps on Sporting springs and 17s....an automatic diesel would be my choice if such a thing will exist....

 

[abarth_178]

that looks most excellent, will probably change my GPS in a couple of years for a nice 3 door version of that, im hoping the ride is good too really as my GP occasionnaly struggles with big potholes and speedbumps on Sporting springs and 17s....an automatic diesel would be my choice if such a thing will exist....

Don't believe Fiat will ever do a three door version,

they've intended it to be a five door only.

 

[Ulpian]

I don't know where your salesman got his prices from- on the course we were told they start at £10995, and in the advert they showed us, and the advert in The Sun today- page 10.

I've just been reading the pamphlet with the spec details.

According to this, the basic car doesn't have any sort of A/C. So that means an £11,000 car, without A/C. Now, I wouldn't look at a car without A/C, and nor would most other people these days I reckon. A/C is a safety component as much as a comfort one, and I find it odd that any car of this type would come without it. So that price begins to look expensive, to me at least.

And no spare wheel either

 

[Scorg]

on the uk bravo microsite (http://www.fiat.co.uk/bravo/) it does list the base model as the Active which has A/C fitted to it, although price wise, it says £11,795 OTR.

Although the funny thing I spotted, the Base Active is available with the T-jet 150 while the Active sport is available with the 95bhp NA engine!
So now I can see how they can sell the higher priced Sport

£14,295 for the T-jet sport though, much cheaper then I was expecting, saw someone say once that it would be roughly £17k

 

[T14086]

As I mentioned earlier plans for a 3dr version are likely to be available in 18months.Also the car was designed as a family car hence 5 doors.

Also its the widest in its class making for more interior space & has 4 crash bars in each door & gets its 5 star safety rating.

I personally thought the Kia was ok but not a great drive.The warranty only covers powertrain items after a period,like what has been said I would check,double check & triple check the warranty claims.

p.s. saw new GP's for sale at £6499! (1.2 I think)

 

[Ulpian]

I am always critical. This doesn't mean I don't appreciate the qualities of a product. The Bravo is a fine car and will sell really well. First impressions of it really are very compelling, and any prospective buyer would easily be seduced.

It felt wide and roomy in front, less wide and distinctly lacking in knee room in the back. But no worse I am certain than many competitors. As for that cheap plastic box thing between the seats (which is shown in the very clear photo - thanks), well that will be sorted one day I expect. The raw edge and unpleasant texture were both easily discovered and undermining of the initial impression of quality. A tiny bit of moulding that would cost almost nothing to make out of better plakky.

I still think the lack of a spare is a real mistake though.

And I have been looking at comparative prices. The Bravo does very well. My personal problem of course is that I wouldn't want a conventional family car, and this colours my judgement. A vanny thing or a tiny fun car yes, but, what for me would be a compromise - no. I was wanting the Bravo to tease me into desiring it, even though it offers nothing I really need. It very nearly succeeds, and that is high praise, believe me. Sadly, the lack of shoe space around the clutch completely kills it for me, but I have size 11s, with welts sometimes, so perhaps I fall outside the 98 percentile human they design these things for? Dunno! Again, a remoulding of the plakky around the pedal box would solve it. They won't do this though as it would cost too much.

The T-Jets look really interesting. It'll be fascinating to discover what their real-time fuel consumption is like. And the 1.6 diesel will be worth waiting for too. 60mpg economy, plus decent performance? Hope so...

I will have a drive one day. Fiats always drive well and this appears to be no different. You techs all love it, and that says a lot. I'll have a go one day and come back...

 

[T14086]

ulipan....your comments are justified,not critism for sake of it but from a personal point of view...........could you drive with your shoes off

 

[D4nny8oy]

Had a look at the Bravo mini-site for the tech specs:

Ulpian- Regarding the Fix & Go system- this appears to be standard across the range, but, a full-size spare can be specified as an option on all but the Emotion and Sport (probably due to their larger sized wheels).

auto_blanco- I'm doubtful of a full automatic in the range. We were told the Dual-logic (selespeed style) transmission will make an appearance, but I suspect this will only be on the 1.4 engines (inc T-Jet).

Scorg- The "Sport" button (a' la Panda 100Bhp) increases the boost slightly to around 230Nm @ 3000, weights-up the steering, and on Dual-logic cars it speeds-up the gearchange too.

 

[The Negotiator]

Why would want the gearchange to be slower in non-sport mode?

 

[D4nny8oy]

It's smoother if it's a little slower. You don't want it causing you whip-lash when you pop to the shops with granny on the back seat!

 

[auto_blanco]

Its a shame a proper auto or even a whiny CVT wont make an appearence, the Selespeed in the Alfas is a whole load of rubbish! Never used Dualogic though.

 

[The Negotiator]

Why would you say that? A roboticised manual has most of the upsides of an automatic with very few of the downsides?

 

[T14086]

Selespeeds werent rubbish....problem was lack of knowledge when a fault did occur & incorrect repair/setting up procedures.However new dualogic is far superior,very reliable,well designed & much smaller(thus less weight).

 

[D4nny8oy]

I haven't said there won't be a full auto, it's just Fiat are proud of their Dual-logic and it's pretty reliable too (far more than the Alfa system). It also uses the same basic gearbox as every other FIRE engine, so it saves developing a new box.

 

[Ulpian]

Ulpian- Regarding the Fix & Go system- this appears to be standard across the range, but, a full-size spare can be specified as an option on all but the Emotion and Sport (probably due to their larger sized wheels).

Thanks D. I have it from the booklet that a Space Saver spare wheel is available, as you state, not on the Sport and Active Sport.

I'd prefer even a space saver as it would always offer a get-home possibility.

could you drive with your shoes off

Tried it once. It tickled, and I was more than usually unfit to conduct a motor car