Technical Multipla clutch problem. biting point at floor!

[steverich]

Hi.

Clutch biting point has always been close to floor, but now it is hard down on the floor!
(car lurches forward if started in gear with clutch fully depressed and engages barely 5mm from floor)

It is becoming increasingly difficult to get into gear ( particularly 1st & Reverse)

Now developed alarming clunking noise somewhere in engine as pedal nears maximum depressed ?

Recently had to top up brake fluid reservoir as warning light was on.
noticed very slight leak at pedal plunger.

reading threads from 2-3 years ago it sounds like clutch can't be adjusted ?

Can someone please help? what do you think? can it be sorted painlessly?

We love our Multipla. but if it is clutch replacement or big (expensive) operation) It could be the end!

(10yr old. 79k miles)

 

[joipalli]

Is it a diesel or petrol ?

I have a 2001 petrol and I can adjust the clutch cable.

The clutch cable looks like this:

The white end goes where the pedal, the other goes in to the gearbox housing. You can make adjustments by turning the nut.

 

[steverich]

It's a 2000 1910cc diesel.

Have had 2 people look at it and both have said "non adjustable" ......"new clutch".

Just awaiting a quote as we speak. So unless I hear otherwise, if it's too much of an Ouch! ........ It could be goodbye multibug

 

[flying clutchman]

You're quite right in that it's hydraulic and not adjustable.The fact that it makes a noise when fully depressed means it's pretty much definitely the clutch itself. The complication with the diesels is some are fitted with dual-mass flywheels, which adds £300 to the job. Fortunately I don't think yours has one. On a more depreesing note the leak on the master cylinder is bad news because the multipla master cylinder has to be the most difficult cylinder to change of any vehicle I have encountered!Expect £350-£400 to do the clutch (if no DMF)

 

[JTDman]

Mines a 2000 model with DMF and i think they all had em .

 

[Zundapp]

All the diesel Multis have dual mass flywheels.

There's been such a large failure rate with these - not just FIAT but from every vehicle manufacturer - that several of the latest new cars, Fords in particular, have got rid of them and now electronics do the job the dmf does, ie smooth out the transmission.

Now imagine how much it'll cost when the electronics goes wrong. But Italian electrics don't go wrong, do they...?

 

[flying clutchman]

Sorry to give you false hope, it does indeed appear that all the diesel versions have a DMF fitted. Stick £300 on my previous price guide.

 

[widemouthfrog]

I don't know if this will help, but these were my experiences.

The clutches on all Multi diesels are hyraulically operated. They are not adjustable. If only they were cables like the petrol engined ones!

I had problems with the clutch on my diesel Multi (2004 JTD 115) shortly after I bought it. Initially I thought it was the clutch master cylinder that was at fault (the clutch didn't disengage until the pedal was pressed firmly to the floor) and duly went to my local Fiat dealer and told them to replace it. They told me at the time it was a pig of a job - lots of other stuff has to be removed to gain access - so I told them to replace the clutch slave at the same time as they 'went past it' on their way to the master and the part cost was relatively small. The Fiat delaer punished me with a bill of just over £400 of which the cylinders were £47 and £30 respectively, with about £8 for brake fluid. Everything else was labour. The thread covering this is on this forum somewhere.

The moral is - DON'T get a franchise dealer to do the job because the labour is a very large proportion of the total cost. Had I gone to my local Alfa/Fiat specialist, the bill would have been almost halved.

As a matter of interest, genuine, new slave cylinders are currently listed on ebay at a very good price:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Genuine-Fiat-Clutch-Cylinder-1-8-1-9JTD-etc-55196189-/220593332209?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item335c631ff1

They did have the master cylinders as well but they seem to have gone now. Check out their glow plugs too! As always, I have no connection with the above whatsoever so don't blame me if it goes pear shaped.

After going through all that financial pain, the clutch was no better than before. By then, I'd learn't my lesson with the franchised dealer and took the car to a local specialist, bought a heavy duty clutch by mail order from CG Motorsports and had him fit it. The clutch was about £160 inc VAT and del (standard ones are in the region of £110-120, though they do come up cheaper on ebay from time to time). Fitting was about £220 inc. VAT.

Hopefully, my clutch should now be sorted. I did NOT have the DMF replaced with the clutch. Several people have told of DMF problems after replacing their clutch. I guess I've been lucky. A new DMF is about £250-275. If it's fitted at the same time as the clutch there will be very little additional labour cost.

 

[steverich]

Thanks so much for all the responses.

Car is in garage now having clutch replaced.... they did not mention anything about DMF ??

They have had it in all day and it's still not finished !!

Let you know what they say tomorrow

 

[SillyBilly]

The clutch isn't adjustable but with the leak at the master cylinder I hope you first tried bleeding the clutch at slave cylinder and at bulkhead just below master cylinder

 

[steverich]

Got the vehicle guy at work to look.... he said "replace clutch!"

Sorry didn't get back sooner....... must have been in shock from the repair bill!!!
Obviously didn't go to local fiat dealer but If I recall it came to just shy of £400... OUCH!

 

[Zundapp]

Which is just about right - without replacing the dual mass flywheel.

 

[Faggy55]

The Multipla owners microsite is very useful for replacing the clutch. It is a big job but can be done by any half competent DIY'er. I saved £300 plus by doing it myself with parts from EBay. DMF doesn't usually go unless you are really unlucky or not very smooth whn releasing the clutch.

 

[SillyBilly]

The Multipla owners microsite is very useful for replacing the clutch. It is a big job but can be done by any half competent DIY'er. I saved £300 plus by doing it myself with parts from EBay. DMF doesn't usually go unless you are really unlucky or not very smooth whn releasing the clutch.

I put an article with pics there which should help.
https://sites.google.com/site/fiatmultipla/Home/repairs
Then scroll down to Gearbox and Clutch & download the article
FiatMultiplaClutchReplacement_NotesForNovices[1].pdf

 

[MalcolmOliver]

This sounds very similar tothe problem I experienced...I discovered it was a broken spring in the cylinder operated by the clutch pedal...I followed the suggestion...bought a new cylinder complete, dismantled it, took out the old inners from inside the car and replaced them with the inner from the new purchase....Bled the system (which took a couple of goes)..that wasa year ago..and its been fine ever since. I guess in reality I could of got away with finding a replacement spring only! You talk about a leak ..the housing is of course not metal but plasticso hope its not fractured?

 

[bncbloke]

We have had exactly the same problem with our 2003 JTD Multipla. It was getting increasingly difficult to get into gear especailly first and reverse, and eventually it was not possible to get into gear at all with the engine running. The only way was to put into first gear with the engine off and then start the engine with the clutch depressed. At this stage the clutch pedal felt weak, as though though it was not doing a great deal.

I thought that as the cluch had been working fine upto a week before the pedal started going limp, it was more of a hydraulic problem, rather than a clutch problem. However, due to lack of time, I took the car to the local garage asking them to bleed the hydralics. I went back to the garage later, and their conclusion was that the clutch was "shagged" and needed replacement at approx £400.

Not satisfied with that, I started to investigate, removed the air filter assembly to get access to the clutch lever on the bellhousing. I cobbled up an arrangement and manually forced the clutch lever on the bellhousing to disengage the clutch. In this position, getting into gear was no problem. This proved that the clutch was still functioning.

The next phase was to bleed the clutch pipes, at the point on the bulkhead and at the slave cylinder, but this made little difference, so I thought it must be the master cylinder. It felt like it was doing no work, so I disconected the clutch pedal from the end of the plunger, and then pulled out the black plastic clip on the top of the m/c. This enabled me to pull out the plunger. After a couple of seconds clutch fluid started to dribble out of the open cylinder, so I pushed the plunger back in, which took some force. I put the black plastic clip back on the m/c and reconnected the pedal. Trying the pedal after doing this required a lot more force, so I started the engine, pressed the clutch down and hey presto it worked perfectly.

Conclusion: I reckon that there was some air in the master cylinder, and this effectively bled it. ( I had checked on a previous occasion that the spring in the m/c was OK and it was fine). Since performing the above, I have travelled approx 500 miles in the Fiat and it is still fine. This trick might be worth trying, before opting for an unnecessary clutch transplant. £400 buys alot of beer!

 

[simo817]

i know how you fill, i've just had a gearbox rebuild due to a noisey diff. and they put a new clutch in, and had new disc and pad's on front. plus engine oil change and flush it came to £1100. now my clutch is near the floor. and the garage said it maybe my master cylinder. i give up

 

[SillyBilly]

Hi
If you just had a clutch put in it is unlikely to be that again. It may be the master or slave cylinder but more likely to be air in the system. Bleed at the slave cylinder. There isn't a bleed nipple. Take the battery out. There is a small spring clip which allows you to move the rubber pipe out a bit to release the air.
There is also a second bleed nipple on the pipe at the bulkhead. If you trace the pipe back from the slave cylinder you will see it. I always use my Easibleed kit to do this - works a treat.

 

[simo817]

can you give me more info on bulkhead bleed nipple,carn't find it. i'm laying under car looking for it,

 

[SillyBilly]

Hi
You wont see it from there!
Open bonnet, look at the brake&clutch reservoir. Go down about 3 or 4 inches, slightly to the right of the reservoir centre on the bulkhead. The pipe comes across horizontally from the master cylinder, which is behind the pedal, and the bleed nipple junction is on that. Should have a little black dust cap on it. Quite visible with a torch. I think it is 8mm. When you find it you will see why many mechanics dont know it exists! I think there is a pic in the article I referred to in an earlier post.

If that does not do the trick and you at some time have to replace the master cylinder I am told it is a pig to do. But if it is just the seals, you can buy a new master cylinder and fit all the internal gibbings from the inside of the car in about 30 minutes.