Panda (Classic) Mk1 4x4 Panda (Original)

[dragonwagon]

I can recommend Tony Weston and his son Andrew over at Cam, they will pretty much fix anything you care to name despite their primary focus being Citroen.

 

[Bartpanda]

To me your problem also sounds like problem with damaged\leaking valve ports or damaged camshaft lobes barely opening the valves{ it also leads to bured out valve ports}

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

OK today I basically just put the engine back together having checked the valve clearances yesterday. I re-timed the engine and she is running fine again. I touched nothing else apart from removing and refitting the rocker cover to check valve clearances Valve clearances are fine though. maybe they have finished burning out and settled now? haha

...So I give it about 100 miles before I start getting missfire again...

why does re-setting timing seem to help this problem!!! It's not like the dizzy is changing position. Points gap is not changing either. And I have fitted 3 different distributors now so it's not that.

What do people think to timing chain stretching? I will re-check the timing next time the backfiring happens to see if the timing has changed...but I don't think the timing chain would be a big problem at 50k miles. Should be good for 100k I would have thought. But I also have a new one of these waiting just in case.

Anyway, I will get the spare cylinder head prepared and ready and fit it in the eventuality that (when? ) the problem returns again!!

 

[Giacosa]

OK today I basically just put the engine back together having checked the valve clearances yesterday. I re-timed the engine and she is running fine again. I touched nothing else apart from removing and refitting the rocker cover to check valve clearances Valve clearances are fine though. maybe they have finished burning out and settled now? haha

...So I give it about 100 miles before I start getting missfire again...

why does re-setting timing seem to help this problem!!! It's not like the dizzy is changing position. Points gap is not changing either. And I have fitted 3 different distributors now so it's not that.

What do people think to timing chain stretching? I will re-check the timing next time the backfiring happens to see if the timing has changed...but I don't think the timing chain would be a big problem at 50k miles. Should be good for 100k I would have thought. But I also have a new one of these waiting just in case.

Anyway, I will get the spare cylinder head prepared and ready and fit it in the eventuality that (when? ) the problem returns again!!

Sorry Qing Qing is not well The problem seems intermittent and that would seem to rule out the timing chain. I would imagine thats either stretched or its not and if it is, it would be a permanent rattly noise.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Sorry Qing Qing is not well The problem seems intermittent and that would seem to rule out the timing chain. I would imagine thats either stretched or its not and if it is, it would be a permanent rattly noise.

Yeah that's what has gotten me so confused! Intermittent things are so hard to solve!! And a valve issue is what I thought it was at first but if a valve has burnt out there isn't a lot you can do to get it to run ok I'd have thought. Except regrind the valves that is and replace the seats...so I almost have to rule out burnt out valves...

Probably going to kick myself when I find out what it is!!

But if it is valves then I do have the spare CH.

I'll get it eventually anyway...appreciate all the ideas guys. :slayer:

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Something is wrong here...

Isn't the spare wheel supposed to be on the right hand side? ....:devil:


Ok, well at about lunchtime today the decision was made to retire QingQings engine for a full inspection at a later date. Something big is wrong and time has just ran out. Therefore ChiChi is donating her old engine for the moment till she gets back on her feet...

It's a shame as months and months of work to get this engine running have resulted in nothing really but I am hoping this is the last push it needs.

Seeing as this is being done and engine is out, the spare engine is getting a new timing chain fitted (this I suspect is what is wrong with QingQings engine but as the trust has been lost and the effort is similar, the engine swap seems more sensible!

QUESTION!!!...
Does anyone know a reason why a timing chain with tensioners cannot be fitted to the 965CC pushrod engine? The tensioners were only fitted to the 903CC timing chains and I don't know particularly why...also try finding a timing chain for a 965cc engine specifically ...no seriously please do haha!!

Here is what the timing chain set-up of a 965cc engine looks like:

For information the timing chain tensioners are the pointy bits that stick out on the side of the chain...

I presume those tensioner bits are supposed to push up against 'something' and I also assume that 'something' is not present on the 965cc engine. so tensioner won't do anything but will probably fit?

Another most excellently technical question. Look forward to hearing thoughts!

Cheers,
Si

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Well think this timing chain thing is sorted now. I have fitted a new set (including chain, sprockets, gaskets and oil seals). They are 903 Panda 45 ones but I think these should fit ok!

New Chain and sprockets:

Cover re-fitted and new crank pulley oil seal fitted:

Quick lick of paint on the sump to smarten it up and protect it over the winter...[8D]

Ready to be fitted!!!...I hope QingQing looks after Chichi's engine!! ...

Si

 

[purple haze]

Look spot on to me Si......

 

[blu73]

white sump... i like it

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Yeah I wanted to paint it black again but needed a fast drying and corrosion protection paint. It is actually a light grey...shows off greasy hand prints nicely! haha But actually it doesn't look too bad. The original Fiat engine block colour is grey anyway....

So the update:
The last bits and pieces were re-connected today despite weather and engine is running. Only problem was the fuel pump wasn't working so fitted a spare one I had and after 4 years out of a car she fired up straight away. Such a smooth engine, especially with the electronic ignition module fitted. No horrible noises from the timing chain so I think all is good!

A test drive tomorrow will confirm and of course some photos to follow I hope! Maybe I will even wash the car (and remove all the greasy hand prints I have put all over it ).

Will be interesting to strip down the original engine to find out what went wrong but my money is on a massively worn / ready to snap timing chain! Fortunately I have just done one of these so should be nice and quick now! :devil:

Time for sleep anyway! Many many sleeps!

 

[blu73]

Maybe I will even wash the car (and remove all the greasy hand prints I have put all over it ).

But that will stop it rusting lol

 

[aquamarine]

Well done Si!

 

[rustypanda]

H Si hope Alls well sorry to hear of your issue. Glad you got it sorted are you doing the hill climb this year ? I was away when you last did it. If you are drop by for a coffee.

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

H Si hope Alls well sorry to hear of your issue. Glad you got it sorted are you doing the hill climb this year ? I was away when you last did it. If you are drop by for a coffee.

Cool stuff, yes I will let you know when my next Wiscombe Hillclimb happens. I have to repair the front end before I can go though as I ruined it at Castlecombe. Tyre wall came out of freekin nowhere! :bang:

Anyway, went for test drive today, and tidied up a few bits and pieces and all seems like it is going ok. Obviously time will tell but until then here are some photos for your enjoyment (Sorry not many in progress pictures due to a timescale / lack of light issue!!)...

She has an electronic ignition unit (next to the coil) which makes the engine run super smooth!
This engine has a nice sporty yellow rocker cover from my more youthful years! But at least no horrible knocking from the bottom end and no backfiring!!

There is still a rattle coming from something but otherwise ok I think. Starts very quickly even cold as well! :slayer:

Finally I have an announcement to make!....

After not being able to do this last year due to work me and a friend are going to be doing...

For those that don't know it:
http://www.pandaraid.com/

As far as we know we are the only (and first) British car to enter this event :slayer:

So here begins project pandaraid (giggedy)!! plenty of time left to prepare right? less than 2 months in fact!! But at least the car works now

Si

 

[rustypanda]

Epic what these guys get up to. look forward to hearing more about this trip

 

[pandamonius_maximus]

Epic what these guys get up to. look forward to hearing more about this trip

yes some of them prepare their cars quite well for this. I have quite a lot to try to sort out in not so much time

I would like to fit a snorkle but got to find a non-destructive way. I think probably remove one of the plastic vents from beneath the windscreen and put something in through there!

The sump guard is off and ready to be modified to include a tow hook and a skid plate.

All the work will be reversible / transferable to another panda after the rally. Just have to make sure nothing serious happens on this adventure! Getting to Madrid is enough of a challenge as it is! and that is just the start! haha!

 

[purple haze]

Great move to go for the panda raid...looks like you will have a fantastic time.

Heat shrink the ht leads and a rubber glove over the dizzy cap..

 

[aquamarine]

Fantastico!! andyholli, surely what the Snatch Panda was designed for? Well, when I say 'designed'.....

 

[andyholli]

I'd love to return the Snatch to it's natural desert habitat.

And Morroco sells such beautiful rugs. My Spanish is next to none existant however, which would limit the fun from joining the Panda Raid I suspect..

We need a UK multi vehicle contingent to convoy down and de-latin it a bit.

Who'll have a functioning 4x4 in 2015..?

 

[Alixcompo]

"That Detective, is the right question."

2015; that's a lot of time to break things