Technical Key transponder woes

[thebluepanda]

Hi all. 2012 Panda only one key and no code card. Bought five years ago always meant to get a new key cloned when living in London and never got round to it. Kicking myself now. I live in semi rural France so don’t have access to anyone that can plug into the car and deal with it all. Had a local mechanic scan and prove the key at fault. He had a mate fiddle with it and it worked for 3 days but failed today and I’ve had to leave the car in the middle of Bergerac. I’m sure I read somewhere of someone deactivating the transponder/antenna program in the ecu. Anyone heard of such a thing or have any ideas?

Ta
Steve

 

[bugsymike]

Hi all. 2012 Panda only one key and no code card. Bought five years ago always meant to get a new key cloned when living in London and never got round to it. Kicking myself now. I live in semi rural France so don’t have access to anyone that can plug into the car and deal with it all. Had a local mechanic scan and prove the key at fault. He had a mate fiddle with it and it worked for 3 days but failed today and I’ve had to leave the car in the middle of Bergerac. I’m sure I read somewhere of someone deactivating the transponder/antenna program in the ecu. Anyone heard of such a thing or have any ideas?

Ta
Steve

Did you see what the guy did to temporarily fix it?
Some have had success by unplugging all the related connectors , spraying them with suitable good quality switch cleaner (which evaporates leaving no residue) wriggling the connections and refitting.
De immobilising modern ECUs is a specialist skill.

 

[thebluepanda]

Did you see what the guy did to temporarily fix it?
Some have had success by unplugging all the related connectors , spraying them with suitable good quality switch cleaner (which evaporates leaving no residue) wriggling the connections and refitting.
De immobilising modern ECUs is a specialist skill.

It’s definitely the key so nothing needs doing with any connectors within the car. Sadly I didn’t see what was done to the key but as far as I understood (my french isn’t great) he had a friend check out the pcb in the key fob. I’ve actually disassembled the key and checked the pcb tonight but there’s nothing obvious. We’ve been in touch with him and he’s taking another look tomorrow.

 

[the green vanper]

I can only speak on my own experience with the 2011 Ducato keyfob, which looks like this:

Probably the one for the 2012 Panda is exactly the same.

The original PCB looks like that:

I was able to buy this pre-programmed PCB on the internet, but when I checked a couple of months later they were no longer available. I was told that there are virgin PCBs still available that might be pre-programmed at distance, but some data have to be read from the BCM / ECU (I can't remember which one) probably with an EEPROM reader. That cannot be done with MES nor AlfaOBD. It could also be done by a specialized workshop who can get the data from the BCM / ECU in their workshop.

The black rectangle on the left is the immo transponder. It is inducted by the antennae around the ignition. Diagrams could be found in ePER (for the location and part numbers) and in eLearn (for the functionnal description and wiring).

The other part of the PCB (the locking / unlocking buttons) is powered by the battery on the other side of the PCB.

These are two separate functions of the keyfob and both need separate programming in MultiEcuScan.

I neither had the FIAT code card with the van when I bought it, but the local FIAT dealer printed me the code from their computer system upon proof of ownership, it was done free of charge.

Then the programming procedure is described in MultiEcuScan and I also think have seen it in the forum here. All the keys have to be programmed at the same time, so you need to have all of them with you (if you have more of them of course).

That's the 'proper' way of having a new key. It's done the same way by FIAT (I've asked a dealer 3 years ago, they told me appx 400 EUR), or good quality locksmiths (appx. 170 EUR). I've bought the PCB, the keyfob housing, the interface and a MultiEcuScan licence for a little bit less. Now getting the PCB is more expensive for the reasons I wrote earlier in this post.

Perhaps there are other methods (like duplicating the transponder)?

 

[bugsymike]

I agree with what @the green vanper has told you.
The chip he showed in photo ( top left of circuit board) is what the antenae ring around the key hole reads and there is nothing any one can do without suitable electronic equipment to change that chip as it is non powered and not connected electrically to the key fob.
Usually after using suitable computer to interogate the cars computer they program a new blank chip to fit in a key as they have boxes of unprogrammed chips. You can buy those chips from eBay cheaply but without the equipment , they are useless!
All the rest of that circuitry in key fob is to do with the remote key lock/unlock door side.
I have had many vans etc. with no remote function , they simply have that chip inserted in a slot in end of basic key and have no electrical attachment, it is merely read by that antenae ring around the key which sends that signal to the immobiliser side of computer.
I even had a van I bought at auction from a utility company that as the management were fed up with their drivers breaking expensive keys, they took that chip and taped it to the antenae ring and then jammed it behind the radio speaker, so next time the driver broke the key they just got another basic mechanical key cut to unlock the steering, so vehicle was permanently deimmobilised !
This is why I suggested cleaning all the electrical connections from the antenae ring onwards in the car as this has helped in other vehicles in the past.
Also why, if as you say the mechanic only checked the key fob it's self and nothing else then it was pure coincidence that it started.
By the way if you do start it, generally as long as it is not turned off or stalled, the immobiliser will not stop the engine, this is for safety reasons so vehicle does not stop on a train crossing etc.

 

[thebluepanda]

Hi all. Thanks for all the advice. It was all useful. However, the car stopped working with the same fault a few days after the fix. Our man came and disconnected/reconnected the battery and it worked again so it was clearly 'not' the key. He took it away and found that it was a burnt out section of the fuse board causing an intermittent cut out. He found one used from a 500 for 100euros and swapped them over. It's been fine for a week so it looks like the problem is solved. I still need to get an extra key though so next time i'm in the UK with it i'll get one of those guys out that can clone for about £150.

Cheers all.