General Is Bravo 2 T-Jet Dualogic the right car for me?

[octinum]

New member here.

Newbie says hi

Hi All! I had driven Fiat-ish cars but now that I've decided to get a Fiat, I thought it is only fitting that I join what I think is the largest Fiat forum. And from what I gather, full of nice people. :) I'm an IT Engineer now, but have a B.S. in Electrical and Electronics Engineering, and a...

www.fiatforum.com

Long story short, I was considering getting a Bravo 8-9 years ago, but my priorities at the time pointed me to the Citroen C5. Now that I don't do as many long distance trips, and don't need the size, I'm back to considering Bravo. And mind you, this is not just an emotional decision. I think Bravo fits the bill for me, and I wanted to confirm with your experience.

Here are my expectations from a car. Do you think my next car should be the Bravo?

- Size: C segment hatchback with a boot larger than a previous gen Audi A3 Sportback. My sister in law has one (MY2016) and we borrowed the car for our latest vacation. Our things barely fit into the A3s boot. This should also make it easier for driving in city for my wife. I've found that Bravo's is 400 liters.
- Budget: What Bravo T-Jets cost in Turkey, plus 20%.
- Engine: Responsive, reasonably cheap to maintain and fix in case of failure, easy to find parts for, and more economical than my 1.5 ton C5 with 3.0 v6 engine and automatic transmission.
- Transmission: Efficient, simple, easy to maintain and fix in mechanicals, and shifts itself. I do have experience from Alfa Romeo Selespeed, in fact, I do like the way it works. Wife's only requirement is the Hill Hold function. I believe the mechanicals are easy to fix by any Fiat garage, and I believe I can look after the hydraulics/electronics.
- Performance: Sub-10 seconds 0-100kph acceleration, and sub-9 seconds if possible. I don't do a lot of spirited driving, but where I live, people have this habit of actually accelerating when they see you signalling for merging into the road. With C5, I could out-accelerate most of them when this happened occasionally. Plus, being able to quickly pass the occasional truck on a single-lane mountain road is safer.
- Parts availability: I believe Bravo does not suffer in this respect, right? What would be the parts I'd struggle to find?
- Features: Auto-lights, auto-wipers, auto-aircon, and ability to connect my phone to the car's sound system. For the last, I'm going to ask in another topic with other questions, but I think Blue&Me does this, and if I can't find a Bravo with B&M, there are aftermarket devices that allow me to connect my phone by Bluetooth and keep the steering controls available. Am I wrong?

So all of this pointed me to a Bravo 2 T-Jet 120 Dualogic, running on LPG, and remapped to ~150hp, but no more. I'm not looking to the last hp the turbo can supply (I think this one has a vl38), I just want it to be closer to the C5's acceleration while running reliably on LPG.

The runner ups were:
- Lancia Delta: Sold a lot less in Turkey, and Lancia no longer exists as a brand in Turkey. So possible lack of parts availability in Turkey, especially in terms of exterior body parts, headlights, etc. Also, no Tjet with Selectronic (other name for Dualogic) in Turkey. All diesel.
- Peugeot 308 hdi: Diesel. A very good one, but potential costs have turned me off. Also barely fits my performance expectations
- Audi A3: Would be the 8P chassis for my budget, small boot, less reliable and more expensive to fix DSG of that generation, and lack of LPG compatible engines

What do you think?

 

[bugsymike]

Personally any form of modern automatic is asking for expensive problems!
Look on Forum for others comments.

 

[octinum]

Quite right! And the older automatics are lacking in parts availability. The brands have got better with the "just enough car" thing. Back in the day, we would usually have parts that fail because of design or manufacturing issues. So many times the cars would still be good after the manufacturer considers them dead, which is, legally, 10 years I think.

That's also the reason most automatic transmission fluids are "filled for life". Take the Volvos with Aisin Warner TF-80SC transmissions. AW says that their transmission needs periodic fluid changes. Volvo says "sealed for life". Almost all cars can see that 10th year without any AT fluid changes; even the accelerated wear usually don't kill them before 10 years. After 10 years, the car is dead to Volvo. So yes, technically filled for life. It's just they don't mention how long that life is.

Now, the economics and packaging constraints have eclipsed repairability and longevity. I'm not referring to the planned obsolescence hypothesis. I'm just saying that the brands have become better at splitting hairs. That timing belt in oil design with the PSA 1.2 engines? Makes for 1-2% better fuel economy/emissions. And I'm sure it wouldn't break if everyone used the correct specced oil. As long as it broke after it's dead for PSA, it's not their problem.

If I'm not mistaken, the Dualogic is as repairable as Selespeed. That's good enough for me, as long as I can find the parts.

 

[bugsymike]

Sorry I will never be convinced to buy any modern automatics. Apart from the cost and availability of parts.

 

[octinum]

Oh needs, wants, costs. I would drive a manual no problem, but wife does not want to. So I'll have to buy a modern auto again, one day.