Technical Injector problem? Code P0202 - Cyl #2 Injector

[Goudrons]

A read of this might help.
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0202

As you've moved the suspect injector to another cylinder yet the fault still occurs with cylinder two, you can say with some certainty the injector is ok.
So with this presumption, you need to work backwards from that injector to the ECU.

Once you are sure the wiring and connectors are not responsible, then get the ECU checked.

 

[superste]

The plot thickens. Yesterday, the wife rang, panicking. Power dropped right off and the car was really rough. Running on 2 cylinders... She made it home and I went about fault finding. Eventually, found that I could replicate or clear the rough running by waggling the cable and connector to the ECU. It's the smaller one, nearer the bulkhead (see pic. I've stripped back the sheath). Don't think I can get in to repair it, unless anyone knows different. I've rung an auto electrical, so hopefully should have a definitive answer soon!

 

[superste]

I CAN get in to repair it and reckon I've identified a broken wire. Soldering iron at the ready. Update tomorrow.

 

[superste]

Okay, finally FINALLY sorted it (fingers crossed!) Stripped the sheath on the wiring loom at the ECU connector right back and started waggling wires here, there and everywhere. When I waggled a yellow-and-red one (which goes to Ignition Coil B - clue!) then lo and behold the engine would start running rough ie not on all cylinders. Made a video, here:


Just where that wire emerges from the plastic connector housing, there seemed to be a break in the stranded wire, I'm presuming. So I cut out a 4 inch section of wire, soldered in a new section and heatshrinked some insulation. Fault no longer apparent! I've still to wrap it all back up and fit the connector backshell but I'm pretty sure that was it. So, to summarise:

Initially, intermittent misfire, EML on, fault codes P0352 (Primary/secondary ignition coil B) and P0202 (Injector cylinder 2. A red herring though). Fault codes reset, only P0352 then apparent. Swapped coil packs around, ht leads around, injectors around - fault stayed the same. Cleaned earth tags, battery terminals, still the same. Replaced spark plugs, fault gone! EML reset and stayed off - for 3 months. Spark plugs, although needing doing, was another red herring. Wiring loom was probably disturbed, 'making' the contact in the rogue wire. Fast forward 3 months to last couple of posts. EML back on, code P0352, misfire apparent and getting worse. Logic dictates it's almost certainly the wiring, or the ECU. Determined effort finally pays dividends!

 

[varesecrazy]

well done, :worship:

:idea: FIAT folklore says that tired sparkplugs create a heavy load on the ignition system,
normally wipe-out coil packs..but could well have found the limits of dodgy wiring too- new plugs making it run ok for another 3 months.

Charlie

 

[Giplansken]

I do hope this fixes things as I don't have the p0352 come up its just the p0202 so the fix is probably the same.

*EDIT* Superste could you also make that youtube vid public as it is private at the moment.

 

[superste]

Sorted. Video now viewable - it was easier finding the fault than finding my YouTube privacy settings...!

Giplansken - it may well be a different wire for your fault. As I said, my P0202 was (possibly) a red herring. But it sounds like you're in the ballpark (may be a different wire) if you can replicate your misfire with waggling the loom in the vicinity of the smaller ECU connector. See my video for a refined waggling technique!

 

[Wee Smurf]

Well done Superste on finally getting to the bottom of your problem. I remember that I had a wiring problem with my first car. It would intermittently refuse to start with it. But bonnet up and a general twiddle would get me going. A few garages couldn't find the problem and as the twiddle worked, I continued with that until the day I decided to take my mum out for the day. I thought I would bring her to the new shopping centre recently opened in the big smoke. Decided to nip in and get some petrol before heading in to the shops. And there it stopped and no amount of twiddling would work Had all the smart guys coming over doing the 'you put the wrong fuel in!' Had to call the AA. I'll give it to the chap that turned up. He worked for a couple of hours and identified the wire and although no matter how much he tried, he couldn't identify where the break was, so he spliced another wire in to run alongside it as a temporary fix. That 'temporary' fix remained as it was for the rest of its life lol.

 

[RW automotive]

Well done, when a car reaches a certain age then overlaying a new wire is faster cheaper,& usually better quality wires than factory harness,
The only downside it doesn't look as neat no matter how much you try!

 

[DaveMcT]

Slip a heat shrink sleeve over one wire, bare the ends 10mm then with wires side by side, twist the conductors together then open the wires straight and fold the copper bundle alongside. Shrink the sleeve over and it will be a solid if lumpy repair held in place by the shrunk sleeve. It should be considered temporary but I have had one last for years. When I did get around to soldering it, the joint was as good as the day I made it.


Repairs at connector blocks will usually need solder but sometimes you can get new male and female contact pins.


Correct method is solder the wires then heat shrink sleeve over the joint and wrap the loom in self amalgamating tape. It will be virtually impossible to see the joint.

I suspect the split corrugated plastic sleeves lead to fractured wires (wires unsupported at tube ends) but to be fair, taped wiring looms are at risk when zip ties are pulled too tight.

 

[Dalton]

Sorted. Video now viewable - it was easier finding the fault than finding my YouTube privacy settings...!

Giplansken - it may well be a different wire for your fault. As I said, my P0202 was (possibly) a red herring. But it sounds like you're in the ballpark (may be a different wire) if you can replicate your misfire with waggling the loom in the vicinity of the smaller ECU connector. See my video for a refined waggling technique!

Is the video still available superste ?

 

[Cornish Pierat]

Hello Gentelmen, Have been following this fault as it also occoures on my partners 1.1 which she has had from new (now with 65000 on the clock )think supastu gets nearest the answer )just one question has anyone ever actualy found a broken wire???. If it aint broke don't fix it , Am sure I know why all the troubles !!! ANY BROKEN WIRES????

Regards C/P

 

[09 johno]

Mine (Panda 1.1 eco Active)was caused by the weight of the loom pulling on the ECU connector plug.
(I did find a dry joint in the loom as well) my fix was to raise the loom up and support it so the weight is not on the plug, I also use a dowel (wooden spoon handle) as a strong back tie wrapped to the top of the ECU plugs (they are inline on mine not side by side) which supports the loom as it leaves the plugs.

I have not had any mis-firing or EML warnings in 20,000 miles and still going strong, where before it was constant, especially on bumpy roads, to the point where I couldn't drive it

 

[koalar]

Hello Gentelmen, Have been following this fault as it also occoures on my partners 1.1 which she has had from new (now with 65000 on the clock )think supastu gets nearest the answer )just one question has anyone ever actualy found a broken wire???. If it aint broke don't fix it , Am sure I know why all the troubles !!! ANY BROKEN WIRES????

Regards C/P

there are no broken wire. Unless you wildly wiggle the wires and break them while trying to find the fault

fault is the ECU connector

if the car cuts out temporarily over bumps. Normally a large or two joined together zip ties holding down the ECU connector is enough to permanently fix the problem.


take s look through the forum for 1.1 misfire there been at least 6 in the last couple of years fixed this way


if you look at the YouTube comments where you will see they had to send the ECU off for repair


This is a very specific misfire due to vibration on the 1.1. There are loads of other reasons for a misfire that effect both the 1.1 and 1.2

 

[Cornish Pierat]

Well done koalar spot on the problem is that 28pin connector which well designed as it is, Is not capable of supporting the wiring loom as well, and pulls the plug out of contact with some of its pin connections,Removing the plug ,supporting the wiring harness and re inserting the plug (keeping it straight and sq with its sockets (ECU) unit and pushing the plug firmly home Fixes the faults of which (supastu ) lists the many that may crop up .ALL RED HERRINGS, You wont know if the 28 pins are making good contact until the fault code dissapears after the third re start up. Unless you have the code reader and can re set the ECU straight off . Classic case of electronics in the wrong environment . Fine on the desktop BUT No place for them under a car bonnet , An electronics engineer I once worked with made the remark if an item has MODES listed upon it Just means the designer wasn't cleaver enough to fit in all the switches that were required . Rest Ma case
M LORD C/P