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Technical Fitting HID's

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Technical Fitting HID's

Tad-bravo said:
I don't think headlamp washers have anything to do with the legislation.
It's just another way to distinguish a poor spec car from one that has that expensive option.
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Its nothin to do with poor mans specs its to do with the light splatter that there is because the halogen plexi lens that is fitted to the car wont reflect the HID properly which is why I asked blue bravo for a pic of his from 20+ meters away froma wall to see if he has any bleeding of the light instead of the nice sharp line there should be

Over here in NI we have dedicated MOT centers and I have a friend that works in one and he was telling me that he fails cars all the time that have aftermarket HIDs fitted because when he does the light level test they are bleeding light eveywhere so he cant tell if they are level or not or wheather they are going to blind oncoming traffic!!!!
 
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buck-egit said:
Its nothin to do with poor mans specs its to do with the light splatter that there is because the halogen plexi lens that is fitted to the car wont reflect the HID properly which is why I asked blue bravo for a pic of his from 20+ meters away froma wall to see if he has any bleeding of the light instead of the nice sharp line there should be

Over here in NI we have dedicated MOT centers and I have a friend that works in one and he was telling me that he fails cars all the time that have aftermarket HIDs fitted because when he does the light level test they are bleeding light eveywhere so he cant tell if they are level or not or wheather they are going to blind oncoming traffic!!!!
Click to expand...

Are you saying the plexi glass used on normal headlights is not the same as my Xenons?
 
buck-egit said:
Its nothin to do with poor mans specs its to do with the light splatter that there is because the halogen plexi lens that is fitted to the car wont reflect the HID properly which is why I asked blue bravo for a pic of his from 20+ meters away froma wall to see if he has any bleeding of the light instead of the nice sharp line there should be

Over here in NI we have dedicated MOT centers and I have a friend that works in one and he was telling me that he fails cars all the time that have aftermarket HIDs fitted because when he does the light level test they are bleeding light eveywhere so he cant tell if they are level or not or wheather they are going to blind oncoming traffic!!!!
Click to expand...

The line cutoff on my Grande Punto is perfectly crisp and flat from much much furthur away from 20 meters and I'm running "xenon upgrade" bulbs.
As I go over a speedbump, a big horizontal line of light wipes up and then down the road infront of me.

If i drive down a narrow country lane at night, you can very clearly see the clean cutoff. Its' great, very HIDish.

But that said, the GP headlamps are strange. If you look into them, they never seem as illuminated as other dipped beams, it just looks like the two tear drop cases have their sidelights on but if you look at them at the right angle, you're blinded instantly.
 
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The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. Therefore, it would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


HOWEVER - The bravo 198 has projector style headlights as standard. This means that you do not suffer from beam “spread”. For example, if the standard headlights in a Mk1 bravo, or fiat uno, are reflector style headlights. These type of headlights should not have HID’S fitted as the beam pattern is far to wide and “Un-specific” resulting in dazzle for oncoming drivers. (Causing undue dazzle is an offence for which the police can fine you £30 or issue you with a VDRS notice)

An MOT (in Britain) will only test the beam pattern and alignment/ colour of the light/ that you have a matched pair of headlights / that more than 50% of the light is not obscured. This means that as long as your HID’s aren’t TOO blue (ie under 8k) and that you have a matched pair and your headlights are in good condition, you CAN pass an MOT in a bravo 198 fitted with HID lights. Having access to an MOT approved Headlight Beam tester, I Have tested both of my cars that I have done HID conversions on, namely my Mk2 Punto and my 198 Bravo. Both of which fall within the requirements.

SOOOO…. To the letter of the law, its illegal. BUT the illegality of it is very minor and as a result, its unlikely that anything will come off it if you follow the guidelines above. HID’s don’t mean an instant MOT failure if they are fitted to the correct car and you havent gone for ones that are too blue/ yellow.


I’m going to stop writing now because cant remember what I said and havent now…. lol
 
Fair enough. However, the only way they would now they're illegal was if they were to look for the Type Aproval Mark on the headlight, which sometimes means removing the headlight. Its not on the same level as having blue led sidelights or red led screen washer nozzles etc.
 
never had any of those, it was just other things.

one which peeved me is in the stilo i had the windows tinted to the legal requirements at that time, then they changed the law jan 04 and light allowance on the front two windows. so wasted money putting them on, then taking them off, then getting an MOT centre to test it to stamp the little notice plod gave me
 
a1ant said:
The Road Vehicle Lighting Regulations 1989 regulate the situation in the UK.
Under these Regulations, HID/Gas Discharge/Xenon headlamps are not mentioned and therefore they are not permitted according to the strict letter of the law.
However new vehicles have HID headlamps. This is because they comply to European type approval Regulations. The UK cannot refuse to register a vehicle with a European type approval. These are to ECE Regulation 98 (for the HID headlamps which are tested on a rig in a laboratory) and ECE Regulation 48 (Lighting Installation on the vehicle).

For the after market, a used vehicle cannot obtain type approval because it is only applicable for new vehicles. Therefore, it would be reasonable to require HID in the after market to meet the same safety standards as on new vehicles. The same level of safety should apply.

Therefore a HID headlamp unit sold in the after market should:
1. be type approved to ECE Regulation 98 as a component.
2. when fitted to the vehicle should enable ECE Regulation 48 to be complied with (although no government inspection will take place).
3. Comply with RVLR as far as "use" is concerned.

In practice this means:
1. The headlamp unit (outer lens, reflector, bulb) shall be type approved to ECE 98 and be "e-marked" to demonstrate this. That can only be done by the headlamp supplier - Hella, Valeo etc. who must test the headlamp in an independent laboratory.
2. Once fitted to the vehicle it must have headlamp cleaning and self-levelling (which can be for the headlamp or can be in the vehicle suspension - some expensive estate cars have "self-levelling suspension" and that is adequate). Also the dipped beam must stay on with the main beam.
3. The headlamp must be maintained in good working order, kept clean, and aligned/adjusted correctly like any other headlamp.

Under the Road Traffic Act 1988 it is an offence to supply, fit or use vehicle parts which are not legal.

In summary it is not permitted to convert an existing halogen headlamp unit for use with HID bulbs. The entire headlamp unit must be replaced with one designed and approved for use with HID bulbs and it must be installed in accordance with the rules stated above.


HOWEVER - The bravo 198 has projector style headlights as standard. This means that you do not suffer from beam “spread”. For example, if the standard headlights in a Mk1 bravo, or fiat uno, are reflector style headlights. These type of headlights should not have HID’S fitted as the beam pattern is far to wide and “Un-specific” resulting in dazzle for oncoming drivers. (Causing undue dazzle is an offence for which the police can fine you £30 or issue you with a VDRS notice)

An MOT (in Britain) will only test the beam pattern and alignment/ colour of the light/ that you have a matched pair of headlights / that more than 50% of the light is not obscured. This means that as long as your HID’s aren’t TOO blue (ie under 8k) and that you have a matched pair and your headlights are in good condition, you CAN pass an MOT in a bravo 198 fitted with HID lights. Having access to an MOT approved Headlight Beam tester, I Have tested both of my cars that I have done HID conversions on, namely my Mk2 Punto and my 198 Bravo. Both of which fall within the requirements.

SOOOO…. To the letter of the law, its illegal. BUT the illegality of it is very minor and as a result, its unlikely that anything will come off it if you follow the guidelines above. HID’s don’t mean an instant MOT failure if they are fitted to the correct car and you havent gone for ones that are too blue/ yellow.


I’m going to stop writing now because cant remember what I said and havent now…. lol
Click to expand...

you are right.... I called with my mate that works in the MOT center this morning and he said it was mostly older cars that have the old style headlight glass not the cars with projector style lamps...... He looked at my car and said he would prob pass this kind of light...... But untill he was able to test one properly he is only guessing
 
Everything on a car is illegal if it isn't done correctly.

Tyres on cars are illegal if they aren't installed properly or have no tread etc but it doesn't mean we all shouldn't be putting them on our cars.

The same goes for HID's.

As long as it is installed correctly and abides by the rules and regulations then it's fine.

The problem we have is boy racers and inexperienced 'modders' who think it's as easy as going to your local Halfords and buying a cheap 'universal' version of something and just sticking it to their car without any investigation, research or testing. It's these guys who give aftermarket modifications a bad name as it's these guys who drive around with incorrect HID installs blinding other drivers etc.

The minute anyone hears you mention that you plan to modify your car people automatically think of big spoilers and day-glo paintwork. But there are genuine 'modders' out there who do it for the proper reasons.

I checked out the HID kit I was buying. Checked it was suitable with my car, it's electrics and most importantly it's headlight set-up. I then asked my local MOT station (friend of a friend) to check that my headlights would be ok after the HID's were installed.

As explained earlier in the thread I then got a mate to check out my headlights for problems such as blinding him as I drove behind him and towards him etc when they were on.

Finally this morning I took my car over to the MOT station and had the lights 'mini-MOT'd' and everything is fine and they 'passed' the MOT.

So now I can safely drive around knowing my modification is fine and safe.

This is the sort of checks and investigations people who want to modify their cars for genuine reason and gain do. It's those who do it to impress their mates in McDonalds car park at 11pm on a Friday night that cause the problems.

If you do it right. Put in the work then everyting will be fine.

(y)
 
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BRAV-OH!! said:
Everything on a car is illegal if it isn't done correctly.

Tyres on cars are illegal if they aren't installed properly or have no tread etc but it doesn't mean we all shouldn't be putting them on our cars.

The same goes for HID's.

As long as it is installed correctly and abides by the rules and regulations then it's fine.

The problem we have is boy racers and inexperienced 'modders' who think it's as easy as going to your local Halfords and buying a cheap 'universal' version of something and just sticking it to their car without any investigation, research or testing. It's these guys who give aftermarket modifications a bad name as it's these guys who drive around with incorrect HID installs blinding other drivers etc.

The minute anyone hears you mention that you plan to modify your car people automatically think of big spoilers and day-glo paintwork. But there are genuine 'modders' out there who do it for the proper reasons.

I checked out the HID kit I was buying. Checked it was suitable with my car, it's electrics and most importantly it's headlight set-up. I then asked my local MOT station (friend of a friend) to check that my headlights would be ok after the HID's were installed.

As explained earlier in the thread I then got a mate to check out my headlights for problems such as blinding him as I drove behind him and towards him etc when they were on.

Finally this morning I took my car over to the MOT station and had the lights 'mini-MOT'd' and everything is fine and they 'passed' the MOT.

So now I can safely drive around knowing my modification is fine and safe.

This is the sort of checks and investigations people who want to modify their cars for genuine reason and gain do. It's those who do it to impress their mates in McDonalds car park at 11pm on a Friday night that cause the problems.

If you do it right. Put in the work then everyting will be fine.

(y)
Click to expand...

nice one (y) so have you got a llink to the ones you got
 
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