Technical Fiat 500 1.3 Diesel - 2008 model from new - Clutch problems

[arglet]

I've had my 500 1.3 diesel sport from new in 2008 and still has less than 30k on the clock.
Recently I am having clutch problems - sometimes (usually when the engine is hot) the clutch disengages correctly when I change gear but then remains disengaged when releasing the pedal. Then, quite suddenly, the clutch re-engages quite violently stalling the engine.
This has happened a few times. I took the car to my local Fiat dealer who changed the clutch fluid and bled the system (for £100!).
Everything was ok for a few months but yesterday the clutch failed in the middle of a 3 lane roundabout and would not re-engage at all. The Car was totally immobile but fortunately some kind people helped me push the car onto the verge. I called the RAC who arrived in about 30 minutes (thank you!) by which time the clutch was working again. The RAC driver said it could be a faulty slave cylinder but that the hydraulic pressure was ok so he was a bit at a loss.
I would be very grateful to hear from any other 500 owners who may have experienced the same problem. I am now afraid to drive the car in case it fails again in the middle of traffic.
The clutch point is high on the pedal and the ation is firm when it is working correctly. When this problem happens, the clutch pedal feels very light but does return to the upright position. (Hope that makes sense).
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Best regards Tony

 

[bugsymike]

I've had my 500 1.3 diesel sport from new in 2008 and still has less than 30k on the clock.
Recently I am having clutch problems - sometimes (usually when the engine is hot) the clutch disengages correctly when I change gear but then remains disengaged when releasing the pedal. Then, quite suddenly, the clutch re-engages quite violently stalling the engine.
This has happened a few times. I took the car to my local Fiat dealer who changed the clutch fluid and bled the system (for £100!).
Everything was ok for a few months but yesterday the clutch failed in the middle of a 3 lane roundabout and would not re-engage at all. The Car was totally immobile but fortunately some kind people helped me push the car onto the verge. I called the RAC who arrived in about 30 minutes (thank you!) by which time the clutch was working again. The RAC driver said it could be a faulty slave cylinder but that the hydraulic pressure was ok so he was a bit at a loss.
I would be very grateful to hear from any other 500 owners who may have experienced the same problem. I am now afraid to drive the car in case it fails again in the middle of traffic.
The clutch point is high on the pedal and the ation is firm when it is working correctly. When this problem happens, the clutch pedal feels very light but does return to the upright position. (Hope that makes sense).
Any help would be very much appreciated.
Best regards Tony

I suspect clutch master cylinder, which should be straight forward to change.
It is usually a good idea to change the slave at same time, though I can't remember but if yours is a "concentric clutch slave cylinder or not , thiat would involve gearbox out and much more cost.
I would try master cylinder first as normally if slave fails it involves loss of fluid from brake reservoir.

 

[arglet]

Many thanks for your very fast reply - it is much appreciated.
I think there has been a very small loss of clutch fluid over then last 6 months but nothing significant. I have checked all the joints that I can see and the hydraulic connector in the passenger wheel arch does not appear to be leaking. (I know this is a common fault).
How would I find out if the slave cylinder is a "concentric" version? I haven't heard of that type only the conventional piston variety.
Thanks again!
Regards Tony

 

[bugsymike]

Many thanks for your very fast reply - it is much appreciated.
I think there has been a very small loss of clutch fluid over then last 6 months but nothing significant. I have checked all the joints that I can see and the hydraulic connector in the passenger wheel arch does not appear to be leaking. (I know this is a common fault).
How would I find out if the slave cylinder is a "concentric" version? I haven't heard of that type only the conventional piston variety.
Thanks again!
Regards Tony

If you can't see the clutch slave cylinder on the end of the hydraulic pipe going to the wards the gearbox, just a fitting going inside the bellhousing then would sound like a concentric type, the concentric ones fit around the first motion shaft going into the gearbox from engine and push directly on the clutch release bearing.
Good in theory as does away with release arm etc. However when hydraulics fail it means gearbox out with all the labour involved so best to fit a complete clutch kit at same time £££
Stupid design as hydraulics usually wear out quicker than clutches.
Usually loss of fluid points to slave cylinder (although if fed from brake reservoir can be just brake pads wearing causing fluid displacement) if clutch master cylinder leaking you may see fluid leaking onto clutch pedal if you can get head below dashboard to look at pedal area with a torch. In the old days that usually caused pedal rubber to be come slippery and fall off
Re your pedal sticking down issue, my personal thought is master cylinder as to me it seems many are now made of plastic which seems to make your problem more common.

 

[arglet]

Hello again.
Thanks for your message. I have done some research and it appears that the concentric slave cylinder is only fitted to LHD models and all the suppliers I have found say that my car has a conventional unit so fingers crossed that is correct.
I will have a look for leaks over the clutch pedal as you suggest and see if I can spot an external slave on the bell housing. I think that involves removing the battery and battery tray so that will have to wait until the weekend.
Thanks again regards Tony

 

[John202020]

Note a master cylinder leak maybe behind the sound deadening?

 

[arglet]

Note a master cylinder leak maybe behind the sound deadening?

Hello. Not sure what your message means. Was it meant for me?
Regards Tony

 

[John202020]

Hello. Not sure what your message means. Was it meant for me?
Regards Tony

Yes if it's leaking as ours was you couldn't see it only after I removed it you could see a weep that must have just got absorbed

 

[The Panda Nut]

One of my Pandas exactly the same symtoms. It was repaired under warranty in 45 minutes. Its worth bleeding clutch hydaulics regularly to keep problems at bay as far as possible. Its not a service item on the recommended schedule and it should be.

 

[arglet]

One of my Pandas exactly the same symtoms. It was repaired under warranty in 45 minutes. Its worth bleeding clutch hydaulics regularly to keep problems at bay as far as possible. Its not a service item on the recommended schedule and it should be.

Hello.
Many thanks for your message.
Did your mechanic tell you what was causing the problem?
I had the hydraulics flushed out and fluid changed and the system bled about six months ago when this first started happening.
I have just re-checked the fluid level and it is right up to the maximum marker, also the fluid is clear with no signs of contamination.
My gut feel is that one of the clutch cylinders is stiicking somehow meaning that the clutch stays disengaged until it suddenly, and violently, re-engages.
The car is old but has only done 29,000 miles since new and I am a careful driver so the clutch itself should be in good condition. When it works, the clutch is perfect - no noises, pedal is firm and the biting point is high on the pedal. Everything is good until it fails again without warning.
Probably not related, but this only ever happens when the engine is warm.
The joys of car ownership!
Thanks again, regards Tony

 

[bugsymike]

Hello.
Many thanks for your message.
Did your mechanic tell you what was causing the problem?
I had the hydraulics flushed out and fluid changed and the system bled about six months ago when this first started happening.
I have just re-checked the fluid level and it is right up to the maximum marker, also the fluid is clear with no signs of contamination.
My gut feel is that one of the clutch cylinders is stiicking somehow meaning that the clutch stays disengaged until it suddenly, and violently, re-engages.
The car is old but has only done 29,000 miles since new and I am a careful driver so the clutch itself should be in good condition. When it works, the clutch is perfect - no noises, pedal is firm and the biting point is high on the pedal. Everything is good until it fails again without warning.
Probably not related, but this only ever happens when the engine is warm.
The joys of car ownership!
Thanks again, regards Tony

My money is on the master cylinder.

 

[arglet]

My update on this (my brain hurts) :
Have spoken to 4 local garages regarding the clutch issue. Have been told "it's the master cylinder", "it's the slave cylinder","it's both slave and master cylinders","slave cylinder is concentric type","slave cylinder is external type", "needs a new clutch" etc etc etc.
The car is 16 years old now but only 28,000 on the clock. However is costing more and more each year in maintenance - £1,500 recently, new brakes all round, new wishbones and other bits and pieces.
So, have just bought a brand new Fiat 500 1.0 Mild Hybrid Top which I can collect on 9th August. Got £5,300 off the RRP so a great deal.
Sad to see the old car go but none of us are getting any younger!
A big thank-you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Happy motoring to all!
Regards Tony

 

[bugsymike]

My update on this (my brain hurts) :
Have spoken to 4 local garages regarding the clutch issue. Have been told "it's the master cylinder", "it's the slave cylinder","it's both slave and master cylinders","slave cylinder is concentric type","slave cylinder is external type", "needs a new clutch" etc etc etc.
The car is 16 years old now but only 28,000 on the clock. However is costing more and more each year in maintenance - £1,500 recently, new brakes all round, new wishbones and other bits and pieces.
So, have just bought a brand new Fiat 500 1.0 Mild Hybrid Top which I can collect on 9th August. Got £5,300 off the RRP so a great deal.
Sad to see the old car go but none of us are getting any younger!
A big thank-you to everyone who has contributed to this thread.
Happy motoring to all!
Regards TonyView attachment 449742

Shame, someone has just got a cheap p/ex car probably