Technical Fiat 500 1.2 to 1.4 to twinair comparsion - LPG

[306maxi]

the 1.2 makes a lot more sense - simpler - standard setup.
But I get the impression that this guy likes something 'a bit strong' - hence a more performance orientated model.
Maybe antarian could confirm if performance and cruising at brisk motorway speed are important considerations along with 'economy' of course.
Still the 500 was not designed for economy on the motorway with its 'bubble shape'. I reckon that after 65mph the 'economy' starts to decline exponentially.

No hatch works well in terms of economy, this is not something which is limited to the 500.......

 

[antarian]

The problem is that I didn't drive 1.4 or 1.2 still and I cant compare it with twin air.

And what i will say is that I want to buy something what will be able to drive 80 miles per hour without horrible noise inside car.

Everything is equal important for me. I am trying to choose best deal for money and it will be propably 1.2, but I am still searching for 1.4 but the only one which i found is diesel edition for really good price, but unfortunately I like the standard white version more. I need to see how diesel version will looks like. And I can go to show room on the weekend. Then I will be finally able to compare 1,4 to 4,2 to twin air.

 

[306maxi]

The problem is that I didn't drive 1.4 or 1.2 still and I cant compare it with twin air.

And what i will say is that I want to buy something what will be able to drive 80 miles per hour without horrible noise inside car.

Everything is equal important for me. I am trying to choose best deal for money and it will be propably 1.2, but I am still searching for 1.4 but the only one which i found is diesel edition for really good price, but unfortunately I like the standard white version more. I need to see how diesel version will looks like. And I can go to show room on the weekend. Then I will be finally able to compare 1,4 to 4,2 to twin air.

Noise will depend on what tyres you have so I would advise against going for 16" wheels as the tyres are wider and noisier.

 

[multispoke]

The problem is that I didn't drive 1.4 or 1.2 still and I cant compare it with twin air.

And what i will say is that I want to buy something what will be able to drive 80 miles per hour without horrible noise inside car.

Everything is equal important for me. I am trying to choose best deal for money and it will be propably 1.2, but I am still searching for 1.4 but the only one which i found is diesel edition for really good price, but unfortunately I like the standard white version more. I need to see how diesel version will looks like. And I can go to show room on the weekend. Then I will be finally able to compare 1,4 to 4,2 to twin air.

Hi antarian. I may have mis-read what you were looking for. But you really cann't go wrong with the 1.2

There are plenty of threads out there on the different engines...
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/265384-what-engine-go.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/258424-twinair-thread-including-mpg.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/263450-my-new-1-4-500-a-2.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/260711-1-4-sport-owners-few-questions-you.html
it would be worthwhile having a little read before and after your showroom 'visit' and test drive.

What has complicated the choice is the availabiity of the 'cheap' LPG and the fact that it can be fitted without compromising your warranty and insurance - that's a good thing !

Plus the new multi-jet engine with 95bhp and there's also the new multijet II - someone else will know more about this than me. At 10k miles pa and some motorway miles - you 'qualify'. I have mixed views about the MJ in the 500. I feel that the MJ is more suited to a bigger car possibly a mito but that is just my opinion.

Maxi's point on the 16 inch wheels being noiser - he is correct on this but on the 16 inchs that I have with continental tyres I have been very impressed with them. 15s will be cheaper to run (sensible choice) and if you can live with the 14 standard steelies on the pop model - even better again and more economical.

Noise seems to a consideration for you - so a 1.2 model (possibly the lounge) and you can 'pass' this on to your girlfriend in 3 years time. If you buying for yourself the 1.2 sport (nicer seats) if you can still buy it in Czeck republic. An LPG conversion wouldn't 'pay' on this engine/model.

In 3 years time you can pick the model you are really looking for. It is hard to get your first 500 'right'. I wish the best of luck in your choice. It can be a difficult one .

 

[306maxi]

Maxi's point on the 16 inch wheels being noiser - he is correct on this but on the 16 inchs that I have with continental tyres I have been very impressed with them. 15s will be cheaper to run (sensible choice) and if you can live with the 14 standard steelies on the pop model - even better again and more economical.

Noise seems to a consideration for you - so a 1.2 model (possibly the lounge) and you can 'pass' this on to your girlfriend in 3 years time. If you buying for yourself the 1.2 sport (nicer seats) if you can still buy it in Czeck republic. An LPG conversion wouldn't 'pay' on this engine/model.

You perplex me, you really do.

Whatever tyres come with the 16" wheels they are more likely to be noisier. Some will be less noisy than others, but by an large a wider tyre means more noise.

Also in regards to the LPG paying off, the OP has clearly done his sums (with a nice table!!!!) and there is certainly a saving to be made regardless of whether the car is owned for 3 or 6 years. You seem to be great at doing research and reading threads but you seem to not to be able to properly read the thread you're actually posting on.

I for one just find it plain weird when someone completely disregards what the poster actually wants and goes off on their own little mission.

 

[multispoke]

An open pattern or directional 15 inch tyre will be noiser than a 16inch tyre along the lines of a Continental
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/sommerreifen/2010_Sommerreifen_Test_185_65_R15.aspx?ComponentId=29770&SourcePageId=31821
so if you want the look and performance of a 16 inch you don't necessarily have to have the noise that associated with it.

I have experience of running a car (ok 20 years ago !) on LPG and understand the complications (and risks !) associated with it. I would be dubious about running a 1.2 on LPG - I personally feel that it would be a miserable car to drive and got the impression that given the OP was hankering for a drive in a 1.4 that it was 'not on the cards' - so the 1.2 LPG model was left out.

On my calcuations which I did yesterday - they were similiar to the ones being done by the OP, the only error 'that I can see' was that I calculated the LPG conversion at €1,500 as opposed to €1k. This shortens the payback period and makes the 1.4 more attractive. LPG conversions because of their lower octane blunt the performance of the car. If antarian (the OP) is looking for a brisk motorway cruiser that is economical and smooth and quiet it will be hard to beat a 1.4 converted to LPG. This of course is on the basis that the Czeck government don't remove the concessionary excise duty on LPG.

 

[antarian]

Hi everybody,

sorry that i didnt read your post now ... I will read it when i will come back from show room. Right now I am writing from mobile phone.

Finaly I exclude 1,4 LPG

So the only choice is 1,2 LPG or twinair without LPG (economic x speed)

 

[306maxi]

An open pattern or directional 15 inch tyre will be noiser than a 16inch tyre along the lines of a Continental
http://www.adac.de/infotestrat/tests/reifen/sommerreifen/2010_Sommerreifen_Test_185_65_R15.aspx?ComponentId=29770&SourcePageId=31821
so if you want the look and performance of a 16 inch you don't necessarily have to have the noise that associated with it.

I have experience of running a car (ok 20 years ago !) on LPG and understand the complications (and risks !) associated with it. I would be dubious about running a 1.2 on LPG - I personally feel that it would be a miserable car to drive and got the impression that given the OP was hankering for a drive in a 1.4 that it was 'not on the cards' - so the 1.2 LPG model was left out.

On my calcuations which I did yesterday - they were similiar to the ones being done by the OP, the only error 'that I can see' was that I calculated the LPG conversion at €1,500 as opposed to €1k. This shortens the payback period and makes the 1.4 more attractive. LPG conversions because of their lower octane blunt the performance of the car. If antarian (the OP) is looking for a brisk motorway cruiser that is economical and smooth and quiet it will be hard to beat a 1.4 converted to LPG. This of course is on the basis that the Czeck government don't remove the concessionary excise duty on LPG.

Well the OP's posts speak for themselves. No 1.4. 1.2 or twinair without LPG......

But you keep on telling him that he should get a 1.4 why don't you....

 

[antarian]

I have a car on LPG now and it can really cause some problems. (you must pay for service etc.)

So I started counting little bit more.

Every year I must go to service with LPG and its 50 EUR.
Sometimes it was more if something was wrong + 25 EUR per year.
Then the car lost aproximately 5% of power (not to big)
full LPG fuel tank have around 65 - 70 kg.
LPG consumption is : 10 - 20 % higher

Nearly every 5 tank you should drive one full petrol tank and it also take some time to warm up motor (You cant run LPG with cold motor)

And if i count all these thing together. LPG wouldnt be really good choice for small light weight car, because real LPG consumption will be much bigger thanks lost in power.

Maybe 1,4 with LPG will be solution but I can buy Twin Air much cheaper and fuel consumption will be similar.

The only thing which I hope is that Twin Air will be reliable, because I read many negative reviews.

So finally TWIN AIR will be propably my choice because I hope that it will be something like 2 in 1. (economic x fast - one or other)

I already wrote request to all dealers in czech republic and i will wait for theirs offers )))) (it took me couple of hours, LOL)

 

[antarian]

But I must say that I told something and then I completely changed my mind few times

And I must say that it was really good advice not to taky 1,2 because it will wont be propably best bet for this small car.

1,4 with LPG or Twin Air is propably best bet. The problem with 1,4 is that it will be more expensive than Twin Air - fuel consumption will be similar (MORE LPG plus service, higher insurance etc. vs less petrol for Twin Air) and speed etc. will be similar for both car.

Then the Twin Air is better bet and as I said I am only afraid that this motor wont be reliable.

Time will tell

 

[Redblade]

Antarian - I had a test drive of a 1.2 and a TwinAir back to back and trust me you won’t be wanting a 1.2 after you drive a TwinAir!!!

 

[multispoke]

Thanks for the update antarian. I had not realised that you already use LPG - which is great. I kinda liked the LPG conversion that was in my old car. The fact that the government were not getting as much money out of me on a litre of fuel was a bit like tax avoidance (both are legal )

There are a few guys on the Panda and cinqueccento forum who have experience with the 'smaller' Fiat engines using LPG.
https://www.fiatforum.com/cinquecento-seicento/262149-lpg-conversion.html
https://www.fiatforum.com/panda/255592-panda-lpg-sometimes-wont-start.html
They mention that the 'balance' of their cars are effected by the 'tank' and they appear to be using 27L tanks but they would not be as well 'setup' in the 'suspension department' as the 500 with the Anti-roll bar. I had 'written' off the 1.2 and LPG - but I could be wrong . 'Most Easterly Pandas' appears to run his car on LPG - it would be worthwhile asking him for a contribution (possibly thru a PM). Given that you have the equivalent of half price petrol and doing 10K miles a year & with a conversion cost of €1,000 - I think it's a bargain.

Re the TA engine choice - the people who opt for this car do so in place of a 1.4 Those who want economy tend to go for the 1.2. For me personally I would not have the restraint to drive a TA economically to get the economy that it's capable of.
https://www.fiatforum.com/500/270586-question-twinair-owners.html?p=2766042

Given your experience with LPG - what prevents a turbo charged engine using LPG ?

 

[antarian]

I finally choose Twin AIR and now I am thinking about other things

In standard I already have fog lights and parking sensors.
I will surely buy preparation for navigation

Any idea? whats fine to buy?

I think about sky dome. Does anyone have experience with it?
maybe smoker kit... i really dont know what else can be fine

 

[multispoke]

I finally choose Twin AIR and now I am thinking about other things

In standard I already have fog lights and parking sensors.
I will surely buy preparation for navigation

Any idea? whats fine to buy?

I think about sky dome. Does anyone have experience with it?
maybe smoker kit... i really dont know what else can be fine

Well done antarian.

Recent thread on glass roofs etc. I would check with your insurance before ordering any sky dome or glass roof.
Re smokers kit I use the 'cup' for holding little bits but I wouldn't dream of someone smoking in my car.

Which model TA are your ordering ?

 

[RobinPJ]

What do the different versions come with as standard in your country? Alloy wheels? Blue & Me? Ait con? Leather wheel/gear knob? Sunroof?

 

[antarian]

Hi, the only think which is not there is automatic air condition, leather gear knob, xenon lights, preparation for navigation, interscope hifi system and electrochromatic rearview window.

its version LOUNGE
Everything else is standard (fog lights, 15 alloy wheels, rear parking sensors, sunroof, Blue & Me, radio with mp3 )

 

[antarian]

multispoke: same reason for me, why I want to order smoker kit )))

 

[multispoke]

Hi, the only think which is not there is automatic air condition, leather gear knob, xenon lights, preparation for navigation, interscope hifi system and electrochromatic rearview window.

its version LOUNGE
Everything else is standard (fog lights, 15 alloy wheels, rear parking sensors, sunroof, Blue & Me, radio with mp3 )

Fog lights are not standard for the UK/Ireland - an extra €150.
Rear parking sensons are also extra.

Sunroof -> you mean the glass roof.

I like having the Climate control with the glass roof.

 

[RobinPJ]

Hi, the only think which is not there is automatic air condition, leather gear knob, xenon lights, preparation for navigation, interscope hifi system and electrochromatic rearview window.

its version LOUNGE
Everything else is standard (fog lights, 15 alloy wheels, rear parking sensors, sunroof, Blue & Me, radio with mp3 )

Unless you want bigger wheels or leather it sounds like it is well specced already.

 

[antarian]

Hi,
I mean glassroof but i think about ordering sky dome for extra 400 EUR